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After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

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Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#361

Post by 10euros »

qchris wrote: post #229
Foxheart wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"... and Black folk are still much more likely to die during police interventions." Care to link to a source?

I try to do my best to assume good faith, but sometimes comments like this make it really hard. In any case, here's two links. One's from Drexel University, the other is a meta-composition of resources by an organization connected to the Kennedy School at Harvard. Educate yourself. [1] https://drexel.edu/now/archive/2016/December/Black-Men-3-tim... [2] https://journalistsresource.org/studies/government/criminal-...

I don't know if it's one of the studies you linked to, but I read a study a week ago that showed that black men were 2.5 times more likely to be killed by a cop, but 2.1 more likely to kill a cop (compared to whites).

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#362

Post by oh_sigh »

karpierz wrote: post #319
oh_sigh wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you do have that responsibility, then a huge swath of open source developers in the world are guilty of abetting pedophiles, rapists, and terrorists.

Do these open source developers: A) Have a means of identifying which of their users are pedophiles, rapists, and terrorists? B) Have a means of selectively denying people access to the tools? C) Have a means of determining which of these users would using their tools to rape, produce child porn, and enact terrorism? If so, then yes, I would say they're guilty.

Well, in the past open source developers have attempted to put morality clauses into their licenses(ie You may not use this software in the development of nuclear weapons), but it was determined by the open source overlords that if a license puts a restriction on a specific usage, it is no longer Open Source.

So everyone who chooses to license their software as open source is making a choice that intentionally limits their own ability to prevent others from using the licensed software legally. So no, open source software developers don't have the choice to restrict certain groups from using it - but that is because it was a choice they themselves made on how to license the software. Isn't that the ultimate hand washing?

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#363

Post by umvi »

Are open source software licences immoral? Think about it, by making tools open source with MIT or GPL, you are basically allowing anyone (including known immoral actors causing great harm in the world) to freely use them.

By the logic in this thread, it would be more ethical to use a more ambiguous license that allows the creator of the tool to yank the rug out from under any of its users at any time.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#364

Post by TheAdamAndChe »

gerbal wrote: post #332
TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The colloquial definition of the term is different from the technical definition, but they don't even meet the technical definition. According to your definition, a concentration camp is an "internment centre for political prisoners and members of national or minority groups who are confined for reasons of state security, exploitation, or punishment.." People of certain minority groups aren't being rounded up. Illega…

So you don't like the questions the term "concentration camp" makes you ask about the indefinite detention of foreign nationals for misdemeanor offenses? Maybe the term isn't the problem and the policy you are trying to defend is

I'm fine with the questions on immigration. It's a political issue that has been unaddressed for decades, and needs to be faced soon.

I'm not fine with hyperbole. It causes unnecessary arguments and deadens people to extreme viewpoints. Reality is bad enough to cause political change as long as attention is brought to it.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#365

Post by zentiggr »

monocasa wrote: post #306
paiute wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The U.S. Government does not have police contracts with schools. Police are state, county, or local. The last few weeks have made it clear to me very few people understand our system of gov.

The state, county, and local govs are a part of the US government. The supremacy clause sees to that.

"Part of" certainly does not mean "controlled by". Powers are generally enumerated or reserved to the states. Plus and minus lots of interpretive scotus precedents.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#366

Post by jlokier »

cm2187 wrote: post #92
rattray wrote: post #14

What a bummer that workers are publicly demanding this, and (presumably) seeking press attention on it. I'm no fan of ICE – a very large percentage of my friends in the US are immigrants, and I generally want my country to be a welcoming one. ICE has certainly committed unethical and probably illegal acts (probably true of most federal agencies). But to expect that a _federal agency_ will be denied service from a pri…

There is also a contradiction in calling for more economic equality for minorities in the US and picking on ICE. Illegal immigration applies a downward pressure on wages of low skill workers, which is precisely where minorities are over-represented in the US.

Your own contradiction is much more substantial!

Immigration enforcement is literally the use of force to maintain a larger economic inequality than the downward pressure you referred to.

Not in some subtle way. Enforcing politically decided inequality is literally the purpose of ICE.

It makes people uncomfortable to talk of it in those terms, but when you get down to it, a lot of people want to see enforced inequality, and vote for it.

They couch in terms like "downward pressure" to abstract things away from the people's lived experience, to make it palatable to make one group of people worse off so that another group of people can be better off.

The economics abstraction has the added bonus that we avoid mentionining the lived reality: the perpetual fear, lack of humanity and so forth that come with, say, splitting up families, and preventing them from having any reasonable avenue for leaving an ordinary life. (I've known too many immigrants who cannot find a way to solve the bureaucracy problem, and cannot even determine their legal status, or in some cases if they did try to find out they risk being split from their own immediate family, so perpetual fear and avoidance of authority is their only realistic option for living.)

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#367

Post by philwelch »

Miner49er wrote: post #303
brabel wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am strongly against a private business being able to refuse service to a person/organization on political grounds, even when the "victim" may seem to be performing evil actions, as long as it is not breaking any laws. One should not discriminate on the basis of race, political orientation, gender, origin or religion. Refusing service is clearly a form of discrimination. When you aim that towards your own Government…

This goes way too far in limiting freedom IMO. It makes sense to not let people discriminate on things that are immutable (like skin color), but it's crazy to not let discrimination happen on things that are a choice. Just like I can decide not to let people not wearing shoes or shirts into my business, why shouldn't I be able to deny entry to a neo-Nazi? What if I'm losing black customers because I have racists regu…

So do you think religious discrimination is acceptable?

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#368

Post by sangnoir »

dominotw wrote: post #355
sangnoir wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not absurd at all for many people as their very identity is quite entangled with their employer and the work they do as they spend the majority of their waking hours doing something work related. Since employment-as-family was not relatable for you, how about: if you disagree with your HOA/neighborhood watch/city council, is your first instinct to sell your house and move away? Wouldn't canvassing support for yo…

employment is not consensus like HOA, yes you can get your voice heard in HOA by participating, its by design. Correct analogy in this case would be HOA where all the decisions are made by chairman of HOA. In that case yes, packup and move. you don't choose your family members by interviewing with them. > Since employment-as-family was not relatable for you, In my family we(adults) are all equals and make decisions t…

I think we are speaking across each other because we have fundamental differences in how we view the employment relationship. I do not expect consensus with employment, but I will not work at any organization that makes it blatantly clear that my voice will not be heard. Oracle makes that abundantly clear - you don't hear many stories about activism from folk at Oracle at that reason.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#369

Post by karpierz »

umvi wrote: post #352
flamble wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In both cases, you very clearly have some responsibility. In an incredibly straightforward and unambiguous way. I'm struggling to see how this is intended as a counterexample. Is it because disapproving of homosexuality is wrong? That doesn't at all change the entailment of responsibility by the conjunction of foreknowledge of consequences with uncoerced action. If you walk out into a public street and fire a pistol…

Well, I disagree. I have more of a "live and let live" or "golden rule" type philosophy. I wouldn't want someone denying me service because they disagree with my beliefs (and by extension, actions), so I don't deny service to people who have beliefs (and by extension, actions) I disagree with.

Would you sell a man a gun if they told you:

"hey, if you sell this to me, I'm going to go shoot that black kid outside", and then showed you a few videos of them doing this before?

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#370

Post by gerbal »

google234123 wrote: post #350
abtinf wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Merriam-Webster definition of concentration camp: “a place where large numbers of people (such as prisoners of war, political prisoners, refugees, or the members of an ethnic or religious minority) are detained or confined under armed guard —used especially in reference to camps created by the Nazis in World War II for the internment and persecution of Jews and other prisoners” Japanese internment camps from WW2 easi…

I'm pretty sure that's it's criminal in every country on earth to violate the immigration laws of that country

And if the laws of your country are unjust?
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