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Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

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Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#651
post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why you should simply strike. 10% of the US population striking would exert immense power and make the ruling class crumble.

10% of the US population is currently unintendedly striking. I don’t see the ruling class crumble yet.

The difference is purpose, and intent. The people not at work right now have been judged non-important, and have no purpose.

If the 10% was distributed differently, in the intent of maximum damage instead of minimum damage, and if they had a clear goal of overthrow, the ruling class would be fucked and the stock market would be at 0.

Of course, having a "strike" where everyone is willing to go back to work and only non-essential people are striking will not do much of anything as far as power relations. That much is obvious to anyone.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#652

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps this will change your mind to some extent https://media.ccc.de/v/36c3-10933-what_the_world_can_learn_f... Specifically talks about how Hong Kong protestors have almost no formal hierarchical structures (to avoid the Chinese state arresting the leaders), yet remain highly functional and effective.

To have a group of protestors who volunteer for a commonly accepted goal among them be organized, functioning and effective without hierarchical structures is vastly different from having a whole society functional and effective without hierarchical structures. What every system first and foremost must face is how conflicts are resolved, because conflicts of every level of severity will arise without fail. A group wi…

It sounds like the problem then is getting everyone to share fundamental values. If everyone has common ground to start from then it's easier to build towards a resolution of conflict.

I agree that any group of people will eventually have some form of conflict but I don't agree that a hierarchical structure is the only way to resolve said conflict. You could just as easily apply any of the methods of governance that humanity has devised to resolve a conflict so I don't think the method of governance is crucial to the resolution of conflict. I think that getting both parties to agree to a satisfactory resolution is what is critical. That can be done with force as in a hierarchy where an external party enforces a resolution on both conflicting parties or it could be done without outside intervention, this obviously happens all the time in a variety of situations.

Ideally, every conflict should be able to be resolved directly by the people involved without additional harm being caused. Maybe there is a way through education or other tools that we can build that would allow people to resolve any conflict in such a manner? Maybe prevention is the best remedy and there exists a way to defuse conflict before it reaches a level that cannot be easily resolved. My point is that resorting to authority or force is not the only solution.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#654
post #637

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> incompatible programming philosophies This really hits home for me. I'm at my most miserable when working with people who value doing things fast more than doing them well. I suspect those people are also at their most miserable when working with me. I see them as creating work that I'll have to do eventually to clean up their mess, and I suspect they see me as an insufferable gatekeeper.

Do you enjoy cleaning up their mess? If so, is it not the perfect environment, where everyone is doing something they do best and enjoy? Or do you dislike cleaning it up? In this case, why do you do it? Noblesse Oblige? Asking because I love refactoring. I also love pushing features fast. But I absolutely dread having to do "perfect code" in the first try. I keep trying to push this idea (inspired by Mythical-Man-Mon…

> Do you enjoy cleaning up their mess?

Of course not. I may enjoy cleaning up my own messes, but not one that someone else has foisted upon me. The problem with teams like this is that the fast-movers are long gone by the time the impact of their expediency is being felt. They benefit from the accolades of a launch while shirking the responsibility of operating a product.

> In this case, why do you do it?

Because the product sucks and needs to be improved, but it is an unimprovable mess because everything was done expediently instead of well, some of which needs to be fixed in order to move forward. A lot of the hard work at this point is in figuring out the best pragmatic balance of what to fix vs. what to leave alone. A little forethought could have saved a lot of post-facto toil.

I do like iteration, doing things in small iterative chunks. But that is not the same as putting out a huge mess and hoping someone comes along who enjoys cleaning it up.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#655

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> incompatible programming philosophies This really hits home for me. I'm at my most miserable when working with people who value doing things fast more than doing them well. I suspect those people are also at their most miserable when working with me. I see them as creating work that I'll have to do eventually to clean up their mess, and I suspect they see me as an insufferable gatekeeper.

You're not alone friend. I am in this boat as well. Hopefully some day we'll work together and we can admire each other's beautiful code :-D

I should say: I have worked with lots of people who have a compatible philosophy, I would even say most of the people I've worked with do. But it really is the quickest and most severe way for me to become deflated by my work, when I come across someone who is constantly pushing against me to cut corners while I argue for them not to. I really think it makes us both miserable; they could usually have fixed whatever I'm asking them to fix in the time they spend debating me about it, but they don't want to, because it's the principle of it or something, and they think I'll go away. But then I don't, so we both waste tons of time without a very positive outcome.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#656

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the OP comment, and also with this one. It is important to understand two things in coping with the state of the world in my opinion. 1) The reality is you need to find validation and fulfilment outside of work, because in our current society you are just a drone. 2) Don't be depressed because it seems like this is how it's always been. It hasn't. Our work culture is broken. People never used to be so fa…

> Working the land, being close to home, running a family business, belonging to a small town of people you all known, having the social safety net of many people that are close to you and your family, being an independent contributor in the town's economy, etc. etc. This is how things were a few hundred years ago. Let’s not overglamorize rural poverty. This life came with 20–40% infant mortality and a very high rate…

jacobolus, you have missed the point. He did not glamorize rural living or poverty

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#657

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> spend the other 8-10 hours a day doing things you actually like to do How many hours are in your day? I don't even have kids and I don't even have 4 hours in a workday doing things I actually like to do.

Sounds like you might have some hours tied up in a commute? If so, listen to the things you like to do in the form of podcasts during that time.

In addition to the third of your day you work and the third of your day you sleep, you also need time for chores, hygiene, food consumption, etc.

Very few people have 8 hours to do things they enjoy in a day.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#658
I went through a similar progression. A couple of observations:

1) Part of what you experience is just gaining wisdom with age. You see how things really work, and you get disillusioned. The thrill of early experiences, does diminish over time. And that's not just software. The thrill of your first bicycle ride, is not reproducible. The sense of freedom you had, after that, riding around unsupervised -- that goes away too, obviously.

2) The word "tech" has changed radically over the years. I joined my first "high tech startup" in 1988. We really were doing technology that was just barely feasible at the time. The entire company was seven people -- founder, biz/ops guy, VP of engineering, four engineers. That was FUN. Figuring out how to solve these problems, seeing the parts come to life, seeing the whole thing come together, seeing it work for users as planned. In an environment like that, you really feel like you are doing something special, that you are lucky to be there, and you just want to spend all of your time on it. The fact that it might actually be worth serious money someday -- even better.

This incredibly exciting sense of being in a tech startup spread. Large companies would entice you by saying, this group is just like a startup within Megacorp. And I never understood how that fooled anyone. In that situation, you aren't scratching your itch, you are scratching Megacorp's itch, and that's a lot less exciting. There aren't seven of you. Outside your group, there are 700 or 7,000 or 70,000. Maybe you get a little bonus, or equity, but you don't own a chunk of the company YOU started.

However, Megacorp and similar companies definitely saw the advantage of getting their employees to commit to their work in the manner of startup employees, and so you get places like Google that gradually switch the incentive. First you want to be there all the time (back when Google was a startup). Then they make it enticing to be there all the time (campus, massages, gourmet dining, on-campus laundry and exercise, etc.). And finally, it's just expected. Being available and productive (or at least seeming to be) 24/7 is just the way things are at Megacorp these days.

And then finally, the last piece of it goes away: the interesting tech. "Tech" companies are no longer solving barely solvable, new problems. They are doing more of the same, implementing dull and possibly harmful goals for the sake of Megacorp. Megacorp is no more a tech company than it is an electricity company. It uses both to meet its goals, and you are merely someone familiar with either bits or electrons, using them in well-worn ways for the sole purpose of enriching Megacorp.

This is both a great pop song, and the lyrics really capture the disillusionment that sets in, although in a very different environment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1-EPTAFE0o

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#659

I've been working as an engineer in high paced roles at one of the FANGs for about 15 years now. I've gone through ups-and-downs in terms of what I call "creative energy", which I will refer to as coding "mojo". 1. You have a limited amount of mojo that you can throw at a problem. When you're young, this focus and energy is easy. You can throw it at problems that you may not be that vested in for a reward like money.…

This feels like the best advice in this thread. Two questions: 1. What are your refresh tactics and any advice for what makes a good refresh? 2. What strategic advice would you give for preparing for that mid-life break?

1. It's going to be different for everyone. I think it should be activities that leave you feeling physically and mentally refreshed. Learning a new musical instrument and mountain climbing helped myself. I have had other coworkers who found a lot of value in learning to dance.

2. Be realistic about the fact you need a mental break. Avoid burning yourself out anymore than you already are. Discuss your strategy and reasoning with your family so it's not a shock to them and have a plan on how to cover finances and health-care.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#660
post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the OP comment, and also with this one. It is important to understand two things in coping with the state of the world in my opinion. 1) The reality is you need to find validation and fulfilment outside of work, because in our current society you are just a drone. 2) Don't be depressed because it seems like this is how it's always been. It hasn't. Our work culture is broken. People never used to be so fa…

Anecdotally, the best professional experience in my 15+ career in tech was one startup. There the founders were very into doing “work-life harmony” instead of “work-life balance”. They made a point to have their friends meet your friends and each colleagues’s friends. Our partners and spouses knew each other. There was a big push to make sure your work is not simply something that you work and leave in the office, bu…

>Which lead to disagreements between the founders, which inevitably lead to the one guy pushing that culture to quit and it all went downhill from there.

Got a little essay on that:

https://realminority.wordpress.com/

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