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Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#651

Post by kuschku »

pjmlp wrote: post #649
kuschku wrote: post #646

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t, you don’t need them, and Android Studio doesn’t include them either. You can have all the features of Android Studio in all the languages I mentioned just with the open plugins.

No, because Google has changed the way wizards work, which means any plugin needs to be developed explicitly for Android Studio as well. As proof of this, the Flutter team just released a version of their plugins for Android Studio. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/flutter-dev/D6pvqM09... Android Studio also includes bits of CLion for example.

Are you deliberately trying to ignore what I’ve been saying?

My argument was that you can take IntelliJ’s open edition, with its plugins for C++/C, etc, slightly modify it, and get the same functionality as you’d have in Android Studio for more languages than just Android.

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#652

Post by pjmlp »

kuschku wrote: post #651
pjmlp wrote: post #649

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, because Google has changed the way wizards work, which means any plugin needs to be developed explicitly for Android Studio as well. As proof of this, the Flutter team just released a version of their plugins for Android Studio. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/flutter-dev/D6pvqM09... Android Studio also includes bits of CLion for example.

Are you deliberately trying to ignore what I’ve been saying? My argument was that you can take IntelliJ’s open edition, with its plugins for C++/C, etc, slightly modify it, and get the same functionality as you’d have in Android Studio for more languages than just Android.

No you are the one ignoring what I am saying, as apparently you are not doing Android development.

1 - InteliJ Android plugin is not the same as Android Studio, it lags a few versions behind;

2 - The free C and C++ plugins are not the same as the parts from CLion that Google integrated into Android Studio;

3 - Additionally the mixed Java/Kotlin and NDK debugging is also taken from CLion

So if you want to be behind the curve of what Android developers use daily, by all means use pure InteliJ with the plugins you are suggesting.

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#653

Post by timrichard »

emodendroket wrote: post #287
cjsuk wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. They also rewrite stuff half way through and tell you it's the same project just to piss you off. Windows Workflow and Windows Communication Foundation for example. I'm really disinclined to invest in any of their technology because my headspace is finite and I want to deliver business value, not change the unworn carpets once a year.

Most of the legacy stuff continues working long after it's the hot new thing, though.

...sometimes to the extent where the hospitals in your country get crippled by malware :-/

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#654

Post by ascagnel_ »

themacguffinman wrote: post #577
thanatropism wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife had several Windows Phones in succession. Her use of a phone is very practical: contacts, texting, weather information. All of this was available at a glance in a much much better way than either Android or the iPhone have. It was a better business UI. It was harder to use if you had many apps. But seriously, having a phone open to the equivalent of Windows 3.1's Program Manager (which is what Android and iPh…

Android has supported home screen widgets and activity shortcuts since forever. Live tiles are hardly better, they're just a very Metro-y approach to the same feature.

There used to be a homescreen replacement app for Android called SlideScreen [0] (homepage is active, but the app is abandoned) that would try to give you as much information at-a-glance as possible.

[0] http://slidescreenhome.com

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#655

Post by Tepix »

Apocryphon wrote: post #354
Tepix wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plus Tizen and Jolla. Let's see what will happen with the Purism Librem 5. Obviously, they just just a very small niche player, just like the Copperhead OS guys and Silent Circle.

Both Tizen and Jolla are still around, though.

I don't think you can buy a new phone running SailfishOS or Tizen right now.

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#656

Post by Nexxxeh »

nikodunk wrote: post #586
microtherion wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically "Fire and Motion" in a situation where that strategy is NOT to their advantage. https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2002/01/06/fire-and-motion/

Wow that was a great read.

As stupid as [my reply] may sound, thanks. Your comment prompted me to read that, and you were right, it was a great read.

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#657

Post by kuschku »

pjmlp wrote: post #652
kuschku wrote: post #651

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you deliberately trying to ignore what I’ve been saying? My argument was that you can take IntelliJ’s open edition, with its plugins for C++/C, etc, slightly modify it, and get the same functionality as you’d have in Android Studio for more languages than just Android.

No you are the one ignoring what I am saying, as apparently you are not doing Android development. 1 - InteliJ Android plugin is not the same as Android Studio, it lags a few versions behind; 2 - The free C and C++ plugins are not the same as the parts from CLion that Google integrated into Android Studio; 3 - Additionally the mixed Java/Kotlin and NDK debugging is also taken from CLion So if you want to be behind th…

> No you are the one ignoring what I am saying, as apparently you are not doing Android development.

Great, you could’ve checked my profile, or googled who I am, but apparently you didn’t. Spoiler: I do. A lot.

> 1 - InteliJ Android plugin is not the same as Android Studio, it lags a few versions behind;

Which is irrelevant, because Android Studio itself is also splittered into several versions, and many devs simply use the beta, and others use IDEA directly, and yet others simply copied the plugin over.

The plugin in IDEA Ultimate is up-to-date with the latest stable version of Android Studio, btw.

> 2 - The free C and C++ plugins are not the same as the parts from CLion that Google integrated into Android Studio;

No, but they differ insignificantly, I’ve been using both options daily, and both work just the same and fine.

> 3 - Additionally the mixed Java/Kotlin and NDK debugging is also taken from CLion

That’s something I don’t know anything about, as I mostly use a custom solution for that purpose.

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#658

Post by WorldMaker »

fpig wrote: post #534
WorldMaker wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why I mentioned semver. APIs change all the time, backwards compatibility gets broken. Yes, conversions weren't always straight forward, but often were possible , and there was an evolutionary arc to it all, and a migration story to follow, even when sometimes that story was a bit rougher than anyone wanted.

They couldn't have done that because these technologies are not exactly for the same things and don't have the same features. Silverlight was mainly for apps embedded in the browser. It was very limited compared to WPF and not meant to replace it. Similarly, Metro was not meant to replace WPF. It was extremely limited in what you can do. You couldn't build serious desktop apps with that. The fact that all those techn…

The family tree seems pretty clear to me, yes, Silverlight was a sideways jag, but it wasn't originally "just" for embedding in the browser, it was a cross-platform WPF subset. (In the family tree both WPF and Silverlight, sometimes codenamed WPF/E for Everywhere, split from different goals of the original Avalon project.)

I think you can tell that WinRT/Metro/UWP was/is meant to replace WPF. It used to be extremely limited, but A) had a bigger cross-platform reach that WPF (ARM is/was a big deal), so started with the cross-platform subset, B) was essentially "Win64" from scratch so had a lot of pieces to build.

Starting next month-ish UWP supports .NET Standard 2.0 and the hard work of the re-convergence of classic desktop .NET and cross-platform .NET APIs has happened (huzzah), and it will be a lot harder to argue that UWP is "extremely limited" compared to WPF because 70% of NuGet will just work.

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#659

Post by pjmlp »

kuschku wrote: post #657
pjmlp wrote: post #652

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No you are the one ignoring what I am saying, as apparently you are not doing Android development. 1 - InteliJ Android plugin is not the same as Android Studio, it lags a few versions behind; 2 - The free C and C++ plugins are not the same as the parts from CLion that Google integrated into Android Studio; 3 - Additionally the mixed Java/Kotlin and NDK debugging is also taken from CLion So if you want to be behind th…

> No you are the one ignoring what I am saying, as apparently you are not doing Android development. Great, you could’ve checked my profile, or googled who I am, but apparently you didn’t. Spoiler: I do. A lot. > 1 - InteliJ Android plugin is not the same as Android Studio, it lags a few versions behind; Which is irrelevant, because Android Studio itself is also splittered into several versions, and many devs simply…

Ok, fare enough. You win. :)

Re: Microsoft gives up on Windows 10 Mobile

#660

Post by WorldMaker »

int_19h wrote: post #535
WorldMaker wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Limitations change as API priorities shift. The platform has grown over time. Some inherent limitations are useful (to be a medium to creativity, to the user's control over their system overriding a developer's narcissism, to the idea that security and reliability are worth engineering for), and yes, unlikely to disappear entirely. I can't dispute the unpopularity of Windows Phone, but from what I hear the Windows St…

> from what I hear the Windows Store is fairly successful in Windows 10. Here's one data point for you. Windows Store used to have an official Kindle app. It doesn't since the end of last year, because Amazon basically said they don't see the return on that investment. They now recommend their desktop Win32 app if you want to read Kindle books on Windows. Needless to say, iOS and Android do have well-supported Kindle…

You can find all kinds of anecdotes on both sides. Facebook's app was built by Microsoft for years because Facebook had zero interest in Windows phone/mobile, but download counts in the Windows 10 store on PCs/desktops/tables pushed them to build React Native for Windows 10, they now officially control their own app, and it's been keeping decent pace with iOS and Android these days.

(As a kindle user, I too am extremely disappointed Amazon developers haven't yet build a modern kindle reader for Windows 10 and cling to their Windows 7-targeted Win32 apps for now. The Silverlight-based app they built for Windows 8.1 I still use sometimes, and it is woefully out of date with the features of most of their other apps.)

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