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What I Heard from Trump Supporters

blog.samaltman.com

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Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#651

Post by rfrank »

justinsaccount wrote: post #421
hkmurakami wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Leaders and managers of organizations have said that they'd like to sabotage the careers of Trump supporters and/or Republicans in their org. That's pretty threatening I think?

Again, people are worried about being murdered by radical christian terrorists. Worried about not being allowed to come home after leaving the country for a vacation. Worried about their healthcare and reproductive rights being taken away. You are worried that a private organization that someone no right to be a part of might not want to have anything to do with the alt-right?

There's countries in the world that are completely unable to feed their people, provide any modicum of security, and where that's been the case for decades.

You are worried about problems in America?

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#652

Post by splawn »

oligopoly wrote: post #586
phkahler wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, I'll bite: >> What part of the "CO2->Global Warming->Catastrophe" thing is it that you don't buy? I don't buy that CO2 emissions are going to be a problem. I don't buy that the observed changes in climate are due to CO2. >> What is "false consensus"? Are you in a position to judge the conclusions supported by a vast majority (that's only my perception, but how likely is it to be completely mistaken?) of experts?…

You might have seen this but I put it out for other people to see it. Recently It came out that climate scientistic have been manipulating weather data. Essay from the whistleblower: Climate scientists versus climate data https://judithcurry.com/2017/02/04/climate-scientists-versus... I posted it to HN as well but it never got any traction. Great read nevertheless. Anyone who has lived for a while has seen multiple c…

Judith Curry has a long past of incorrectly claiming that global warming has ended. Ironically, It reminds me of those cult leaders that claim the world is ending on a specific date and then keep moving it back when it doesn't happen, lol.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#653

Post by gizmo »

splintercell wrote: post #630
gizmo wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's still misplaced anger, because the GOP refuses to expand medicare or to allow collective bargaining to push costs down. Voting GOP because Obamacare is mediocre makes no sense because the GOP has no intention (and literally no plan) to fix any of the problems with Obamacare. Besides, the towns with 30k average income didn't vote for Trump, they voted overwhelmingly for Clinton. Trump did well in middle America a…

I bunch of things you talk about show all the symptoms of the bubble effect. People don't believe in things because they personally analyzed everything and came to a conclusion. You don't believe that a fossil in a museum is 5,000 years old, or a painting is truly made by Da Vinci 500 years ago, you trust 'experts', even though your own intuition would be against it. So for instance, if I showed you a painting and as…

I totally agree that my observations are symptomatic of a bubble. That doesn't change that there are a meaningful differences between bubbles. People who blindly trust scientific consensus live in a bubble, but it's the best kind of bubble.

The Obamacare scenario you describe doesn't match up with reality. It's not true that they oppose Obamacare on rational grounds (e.g. I don't want my insurance to go up). Obamacare is the republican solution to health insurance, it's a federal version of Romneycare. Republicans should love it, because it's their own program, but they hate it. This hatred for Obamacare is the product of relentless fear-mongering by the right wing press and talk radio. What's going on here is much more serious than just groups of people living in their own bubble and consuming their own kind of media. Bubbles aren't a new thing, embracing a fact-free worldview is.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#654

Post by spinlock »

christophilus wrote: post #531
sseagull wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty liberal and (used to be) a gun owner. I can see supporting those things (I personally would like nationwide reciprocity [0]). It's just very hard for me to understand how this issue (or others like abortion) would be above all others. You are voting for a government with a tremendous amount of power and responsibility (military and defense, infrastructure, running a huge economy, world trade, healthcare, e…

My mom voted for Trump because of the abortion issue. The reason it's above all others in her mind is that she literally views it the way we view the holocaust. (e.g. "Millions of people have died because of pro-choice policies.") So, whether or not you agree with her, you can see that there is some logic to making that issue a high priority if she views it that way. "Hitler's really got a great economic package, has…

You should tell your mom that there are fewer abortions when women are given access to them. It's counter intuitive but there's data to back it up.

Bill Clinton said it best: abortion should be safe legal and rare.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#655

Post by eridius »

eridius wrote: post #390
Dirlewanger wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one wants rational debate. In the case of UC Berkeley students, it's easier to cause property damage because an alleged Nazi (an entirely slanderous claim, btw) is given a platform to speak. No one wants to wade through the muck and find out what opposing viewpoints are actually saying. Edit: And the people scoffing at my comment and hitting the downvote button are only proving my point.

No, being downvoted doesn't prove your point. People are downvoting you because you're literally defending a pederast nazi.

You know, downvoting me doesn't prove your point either.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#656

Post by kolbe »

Exofunctor wrote: post #587
justinsaccount wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would feel 10x more comfortable sharing my liberal viewpoints in a small, deeply-red town I'm sure I'd feel comfortable sharing liberal viewpoints in a small, deeply-red town as well, but I'm also a straight white male. You're worry about being ostracized. People in Kansas have to worry that radical christian terrorists are going to murder them [1]. [1]: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/kansas-crusaders-arrest…

Having lived for >2 years in 6 different US states (NY, CA, TX, MA, NV, MT) and cities with populations ranging from 2,000 to 20,000,000, I can absolutely guarantee you that rural white areas have the least internalized racism of anywhere in the US. The communities are small enough that racial classification isn't actually a useful heuristic, so people just use social connections and character instead. Second to that…

This is spot on. Growing up in Sacramento, one of the most diverse cities in the US, I never felt racially divided, despite the fact that my friends and I would casually toss around very pejorative slurs at one-another. But when I moved to Chicago, I never once heard an N-bomb, and at them same time, I'd never felt more racial segregation.

I've always found it really funny that extremely disfunctional racist places like Chicago feel like they should define the cultural behaviors to fix racism.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#657

Post by CM30 »

saeranv wrote: post #185
austenallred wrote: post #100

I moved to San Francisco from a very rural area (was working remotely from my father-in-law's farm), and there are a few things the liberals I work with simply do not understand about what's happening in "small-town America" (Disclaimer: I did not vote for Trump, and I don't consider myself a Republican). 1. People hate Hillary Clinton. Haaaate her. No, you think I'm saying they disagree with her politics, but you do…

Thanks for sharing. Can you elaborate on #1. I never really understood the level of hatred Hillary received. To me she seemed like any other politician.

In part it's likely because she's married to Bill Clinton. She's basically seen as an example of a political 'dynasty' in the same way as George HW Bush, George W Bush and Jeb Bush. Part of an 'establishment' that doesn't seem like it'll change very much, especially when contrasted to Trump's claims of draining the swamp and overthrowing the system.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#658

Post by splawn »

api wrote: post #217
wueiweiuhle wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"He's not politically correct." It's as if people who rage against political correctness don't understand what it means. It means showing respect and being polite and not using pejoratives. That's all.

Like "redneck" and "hick" and "white trash"? That's the other thing I think people are reacting to. There's a double standard where it's okay to slur rural white Americans but nobody else. IMHO it's about classism as opposed to racism. Racism is taboo in American discourse but classism and urban elitism (placeism?) are not. Maybe the answer is to define PC as you do and extend it to cover classism, placeism, and reve…

I thought it was taboo to be an asshole. Hence the term "asshole".

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#659

Post by spinlock »

sedachv wrote: post #615
str33t_punk wrote: post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Conservatives would say the same thing! 'Liberals are prioritizing where people use the bathrooms over the real problem of islamic terrorism . Prioritizing pet issues over national security is disgusting!' Insulting people over whatever issues they decide to find important does nothing but drive them away from the issue you think they should support instead. Empathy and understanding need to be developed -- its l…

> And Conservatives would say the same thing! 'Liberals are prioritizing where people use the bathrooms over the real problem of islamic terrorism . Prioritizing pet issues over national security is disgusting!' The difference is they would be wrong because violence against LGBT people is much more widespread than Islamic terrorism in the US. Racists and gay-bashers will literally use any issue in place of "Islamic t…

they'd also be wrong because liberals were the ones who finally got Osama bin Laden. Bill Clinton was also accused by Republicans of trying to distract from Monika Lewinski when he ordered an attack on bin Laden _before_ 9-11.

Competent people can do more than one thing at the same time.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#660

Post by RangerScience »

ar15saveslives wrote: post #426
RangerScience wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, I'll bite. I don't actually know what you're talking about. I haven't experienced either a gender or a racial war, or the promotion of it. But I want to take this "personal". When have you, personally , been the victim of a gender / race war? (My hunch is that you haven't, but that you see the promotion of one, because it sells.) (Towards my points - the #1 difference is not the only difference, and there are d…

I like your logic. "You know, I have never been a victim of a murder, therefore murders don't happen". When a company publicly announces "we're affirmative action company", I understand it as they openly exercise racism and/or sexism against me. And trust me, as a divorced guy, I've experienced institutionalized sexism A LOT.

My logic is "I have not experienced this therefore you cannot rely on me having experienced it to understand what you're saying".

Sorry if that wasn't clear; I can see how it got muddied.

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