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GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

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Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#651

Post by Laaw »

wildmusings wrote: post #413
Laaw wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm okay with it, because I can get a job elsewhere. Some minorities can't. I don't need to be able to get a job at GitHub, because for some stupid reason, society has a general bias in favor of me. I can work anywhere, but the folks they're giving a shot are folks who don't have it as good as I do.

Every human being should be judged for the content of their character, not the color of their skin. The law disagrees with you. I can very easily see Github on the losing side of workplace racial discrimination claim here.

I wish your world existed. It doesn't, however, and minority groups need advantages over me in order to get the kinds of jobs I can get.

I hope we can move past this some day, but that's not happening today.

Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#652

Post by djKianoosh »

farkas wrote: post #508
djur wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stash (Bitbucket Server now) lacks a ton of features that Bitbucket (and Github) have. Like most Atlassian products, the base product has subpar functionality that you can theoretically expand with overpriced and/or low-quality plugins. Also, the degree to which Atlassian products integrate varies a lot. FishEye and Crucible integrate closely. Both of them integrate OK with Jira. Neither of them really integrate at a…

> Stash (Bitbucket Server now) lacks a ton of features that Bitbucket (and Github) have CEO of Atlassian here. Can you list the features you deem missing? I want to check them against our roadmap, as I don't believe we have many gaps, and a host of things better.

Ohhhh, how could I forget?

Please use the same markdown syntax across ALL your products.

Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#653

Post by morgante »

reitanqild wrote: post #478
codyps wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was interested in your comparison in #1, wrt "HN community overreacted". I've been searching through old HN stories about Eich, but can't seem to find any where the comments generally supported firing him due to supporting Prop 8 (banning gay marriage). Is there a particular thread you had in mind? Or are you stating the overreaction was being angry that he might have been fired over that support?

I haven't bookmarked those threads but I'm certain I saw a lot of comments here saying things along the lines of "the right to free speak only protects you against the government", strongly implying that what happened to him was fair game because it wasn't the government who staged it.

> "the right to free speak only protects you against the government"

I strongly agree with that statement, but I also strongly object to the ouster of Eich. An opinion on one does not imply an opinion on the other.

I support the right of the KKK to march through the streets, but that doesn't mean I should have to hire one of their members.

Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#654

Post by leohutson »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #629
leohutson wrote: post #621

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is race or sex aware hiring going to help with eliminating subconscious bias? It reinforces bigotry, because it gives a rationalization for bigots to not respect their minority coworkers, as they can claim that they were not subject to the same scrutiny when they were hired. What is the historical justification for the effectiveness affirmative action? Certainly, countries like Malaysia and South Africa with extr…

Who cares what coworkers claim? If job performance is used for evaluations and promotions, then fairness is preserved. And the assumption that minorities can only be hired by insufficient scrutiny is not a very enlightened attitude. Perhaps the company can look really hard for qualified candidates that help balance the workforce. How about that? I agree that real progress is the right way to evaluate hiring/ admissio…

I would care if my coworkers were bigots, and I would especially care if they were prejudiced against me, how can you effectively work with someone who doesn't respect you? Pretending bigotry doesn't exist is the same thing as pretending that race/sex aren't visible. You will also have to apply the same affirmative action when promoting people, as a couple of years work experience doesn't erase the generations of privilege you're competing with.

I never said that minorities can only be hired by applying insufficient scrutiny. What I will say is as a group, minorities can only be hired in a proportion that is different to the proportion of minorities in group of qualified applicants if some weighting is taken off the job relevant qualifications, and applied to their membership in minority groups.

If you could come up with a huge list of entirely fungible, interchangeable resumes and interview notes, you could consciously pick minorities first without harming the quality of your recruiting. What kind of roles would have that weak of a job market though?

If candidates aren't fungible weighting any importance to race/sex means taking some weighting off something else, and it means that bigots will assume individuals from minority groups are less qualified, because of the fact that the group as a whole is less qualified, because of your own policies. It perpetuates both inequality and bigotry.

Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#655

Post by nailer »

rotw wrote: post #515
masterleep wrote: post #511

Discrimination is fairness. War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.

Being considerate of other people is Stalinism, is that what you're saying?

The peasants were actually, legitimately being oppressed. Someone rose up to fight a good fight and ended up saying (as a well known someone in these circles frequently says) the non oppressed group should be killed. Yep: it's pretty Stalinist.

Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#658

Post by b6 »

canistr wrote: post #173

Hold on. Before we make judgment based solely on mentioning race in a slide. I highly recommend reading Nicole Sanchez's full take on the issue here: http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/columnist/2015/02/12/wome...

Thanks, good idea. I read it. To me it seems saturated with the insidious mutant form of racism and sexism that I've been very worried about.

Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#659

Post by wildmusings »

droopybuns wrote: post #494

The current dominant themes in certain feminism & diversity cliques in our community are openly hostile towards me. I'm a male. I'm white. I'm middle class. I'm heterosexual. I'm also a leader. I'm a parent of two daughters. My mother had to fight sexism issues in her career. I am supportive of inclusion & diversity. I am trying to raise my girls to be empowered, confident & curious. But the dominant themes in curren…

All it takes for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing. The reason why this narrative is doing so well is because they've scared everyone else into ducking for cover instead of speaking up. If we don't fight back, we are surrendering to this tyranny.

History doesn't have to play out in any one way. Our culture of individualism and freedom is not guaranteed to survive. It is on each generation to preserve it for the next. When they asked Benjamin Franklin what type of government the Constitution would create, he said "a republic, if you can keep it." We can't win every battle, and we can't win the war if we don't choose our fights, but we must fight to win.

Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#660

Post by susan_hall »

Regarding diversity issues, it is interesting to go back and look at this interview with John Lennon and Yoko Ono, from 1972. What I find worrisome is that the conversation is still being discussed in 2016. For all the progress in technology, there are some social issues that change only very slowly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5lMxWWK218

What has changed is that some corporations now have formal programs in place to try to make progress on diversity issues. But the resistance to progress on this issue is remarkable.

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