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The PyCon Incident

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Re: The PyCon Incident

#641

Post by wpietri »

shakesbeard wrote: post #426
wpietri wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They talked with Adisa, so they probably did recognize that she was a woman. I am not drawing an analogy. I was trying to help Joeboy understand how jokes can sexualize a context in a way that makes people feel uncomfortable. As a frequent teller of jokes, I always try to match the joke to the audience. If religious people in the US faced a 1 in 6 risk of physical assault for their religion, you can bet I would be ve…

> They talked with Adisa, so they probably did recognize that she was a woman. As far as I've read they talked to each other, not her. > As a frequent teller of jokes, I always try to match the joke to the audience. If religious people in the US faced a 1 in 6 risk of physical assault for their religion, you can bet I would be very careful about telling any joke that might make them fearful. Wouldn't you? No, because…

> As far as I've read they talked to each other, not her.

You should read her blog, then.

> Also I'd like some source for that 1/6 people faces risk of physical assault for their religion.

No, it's 1 in 6 women who will be sexually assaulted in their lifetimes. Note the "if" in my statement. My point is that your example doesn't really work, because in the US people don't generally risk assault just for being a particular religion.

Also, I think it's unfortunate that you are willing to make people afraid just so you can tell a joke. It's your prerogative, of course. But so is getting called out for it. Including, as with these folks, on Twitter.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#642

Post by mr-hank »

rdtsc wrote: post #536
nailer wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As assessments of body parts the men's behavior and the Sendgrid developer evangelists's tweets are more offensive to men who are being objectified based on their dongles. The lesser issue still exists, though, of creating a 'sexual environment' where mentions of sex may make people who believe others may wish to engage them in sexual relations may feel threatened.

Come to think of it, Twisted also makes me uncomfortable. Quick, call Jesse Noller and security and escort Glyph out of the building.

To be fair to PSF Jesse Noller was not involved, and we were not escorted out of the building. Their accounting of the issue can be found here: http://pycon.blogspot.com/2013/03/pycon-response-to-inapprop...

Re: The PyCon Incident

#643

Post by ameen »

Adria's behaviour is reminiscent of a classic high school snob. Complain about someone you don't like, get them punished and gain fame.

If anything this reflects highly on SendGrid's work-culture. I can only imagine what her colleagues go through on a daily basis if she can do this to a rank outsider. Fear, intimidation and high-handedness in a workplace is the last thing anybody should have to deal with.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#644

Post by reeses »

benjamincburns wrote: post #597

Am I the only one who sees the irony in the fact that this happened at a conference for a programming language which was named in celebration of a crude, sometimes immature, comedy group?

No, you are not alone. I'm surprised we made it this far without python → snake → penis being mentioned.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#645

Post by clubhi »

adamnemecek wrote: post #402

Someone on reddit dug up an old tweet from her. "Black people CANNOT be racist against White people. Racism is a position of the oppressor who has the power" https://twitter.com/adriarichards/status/6039856858 Words fail me. (I realize that it's unrelated but it provides some insight into her mentality).

And suddenly we all know who we are dealing with.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#646

Post by corresation »

rmrfrmrf wrote: post #608
Domenic_S wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She's encouraging an internet lynch mob, and that's a culture most communities actively discourage.

She @-replied pycon staff. Compare that to the HN and Reddit communities out for Adria's head.

Her initial response was a twitter message with the pycon hashtag and a picture of the "culprits". It was demanding a lynch mob resolution. She never directly replied to or messaged pycon staff, though she had the wherewithal to search up the code of conduct.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#647

Post by mamoswined »

jessedhillon wrote: post #613
mamoswined wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as "a women in tech" (eeew) I also agree. It's like people don't know the difference between misogyny, which should be unacceptable, and bawdiness, which is a matter of taste. She must be really sheltered. But why did this person's employer fire them? I certainly wouldn't fire anyone for this reason and I would hire someone who made dick jokes for sure.

But why did this person's employer fire them? I certainly wouldn't fire anyone for this reason and I would hire someone who made dick jokes for sure. Sorry, what? Two employees go to a conference, on paid time, wear your company's swag, and have around their necks badges which, if this is like other cons, has your company's name on it. Then they say something about big dongles and forking repos -- just gross -- at an…

I don't find that comment "gross" at all. If I fired everyone who said "gross" things at work or at conferences, we'd have no employees, but we clearly have different definitions of gross. I would however, be annoyed if someone said those things to a client.

But I bet you wouldn't even bat an eyelash if I made those jokes and sometimes I worry I have gotten into bad habits with my language because of who I am. I confess I have made the forking joke myself and everyone thought it was cute and funny because I'm a five foot tall woman. It is not a sexist joke, it might be in bad taste. Gross is totally subjective.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#648

Post by marshray »

mistercow wrote: post #631
marshray wrote: post #591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Python conventions are places where people can overhear my conversation, take pictures of me, and publicize them as personal accusations with impunity? I've been to plenty of conferences and I haven't heard of this happening, except to politicians when they forget there are microphones and news reporters around. This is why our society does, in fact, have a separate set of privacy rules for people classified as "publ…

Let's keep the threads of argument separate here. On the one hand, we have the question of whether or not that joke was acceptable in that situation, and in the ancestor comment, danilocampos was arguing that it was not. I tend to agree. Then there is the separate question of whether publicly shaming the person as Richards did was an acceptable response. I certainly do not think it was. But it's a separate issue.

You don't believe in "proportionate response"?

The degree of the reaction is completely separate from the degree of the offense?

Consider Oritz vs. Swartz.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#649

Post by newnewnew »

adamnemecek wrote: post #402

Someone on reddit dug up an old tweet from her. "Black people CANNOT be racist against White people. Racism is a position of the oppressor who has the power" https://twitter.com/adriarichards/status/6039856858 Words fail me. (I realize that it's unrelated but it provides some insight into her mentality).

That's exactly what leftists college professors teach and get PHDs for writing about.

The real question is: who had the power in this situation, and who was powerless? They teach that people in power are straight white males but it looks like a new hierarchy is in town.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#650

Post by wpietri »

Joeboy wrote: post #422
wpietri wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in SF as well, and I would also probably feel safe. But that's because my lifetime risk of sexual assault is very low, and San Francisco is a pretty safe place. But if you need a different story to imagine feeling unsafe because suddenly people around you are talking about sex, I'm sure you can make one up. The point was to help Joeboy understand the feeling, not the specifics of the situation.

I understand the feeling of being scared, but I don't understand why a joke about a dongle would provoke it. It seems to me that the level of threat from a room full of people who are not joking about dongles is exactly the same as the level of threat from a room full of people, two of whom are joking about dongles. I am obviously not arguing that it would be impossible to tell a joke with scary content, but I haven'…

Hi! Thanks for the civilized reply.

I understand you don't get it. I'm saying that's partly because you don't have a visceral fear of sexual assault. You also probably don't have much experience with unwanted sexual advances. And you've probably never been sexually harassed. You also may not have experienced being a visibly different minority in a situation where that raises your risk of unpleasantness or violence.

I don't think the jokes themselves were scary. I doubt Adira did either. But sexualization of a professional environment can be scary. So we are finally starting to say that it's not allowed at tech conferences.

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