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The PyCon Incident

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Re: The PyCon Incident

#591

Post by marshray »

mistercow wrote: post #495
ineedtosleep wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. If you're sitting in a restaurant eating with some acquaintances/friends, you shouldn't expect privacy there either. The table next to you can get offended with some random inside joke that includes the words "penis", "boob", or maybe even "yoga pants." No jokes allowed unless you're wrapped in a Faraday cage filled in with sound proof material. None whatsoever.

That analogy is completely ridiculous. Restaurants are not venues that require customers to agree to a code of conduct barring inappropriate jokes. They're also not the kind of places where people are sitting quietly and near enough each other to hear jokes told quietly.

Python conventions are places where people can overhear my conversation, take pictures of me, and publicize them as personal accusations with impunity?

I've been to plenty of conferences and I haven't heard of this happening, except to politicians when they forget there are microphones and news reporters around.

This is why our society does, in fact, have a separate set of privacy rules for people classified as "public figures". So the rest of us can hang out and chat in comfort by assuming in all probability the absence of a news reporter or papparazi trying to play "gotcha" with a camera and microphone.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#592

Post by anigbrowl »

ErrantX wrote: post #227

What's confusing to me is that it is unclear exactly what comments were made. Something about "forking" repositories and big dongles. It would be much easier to take a "side" if this were made clearer.... (one reason I'm not outright defending Adria here is that she is very specific in some details in her post, but when it comes to the actual jokes made she appears deliberately vague). What's wrong with lewd comments…

I too find the vagueness troubling. The incident she described earlier in the day (describing a lame joke involving skirts) was described in much more detail, making it far easier to understand what was said and how offensive and discomfiting it must have been. The later incident (involving talk of dongles) may have been equally offensive, or it may have been nothing more than banter/wordplay. I really can't tell, and wonder why this important context is absent.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#593

Post by d3c0d3dab0d3 »

amykhar wrote: post #316

I'm a woman programmer and I'm probably the most likely person in my company to make a big dongle joke. I often cringe at oversensitive women whining about gimme t-shirts and other inconsequential things such as mildly raunchy jokes. Somebody not hiring a programmer because she is a woman is a real problem. Somebody not paying a woman the same as a man is a problem. Somebody firing a woman for getting pregnant is a p…

I think you nailed it . There are plenty of real problems, this is not one of them.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#594

Post by Domenic_S »

shuzchen wrote: post #504
Domenic_S wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you happen to work in California, you should know that this kind of remark, if repeated and unwelcome, would constitute harassment. True, but unwelcome is key. How do you know if a remark is unwelcome? Someone tells you so -- either the offended or HR (whom the offended told). They don't post it on Twitter or blog about it, they talk about it with people in a position to correct the problem. I know plenty of wom…

I think you had to be there. This year (and last year as well), there was a ton of messaging from the organizers/presenters/leaders regarding the past/future efforts to bring more women into the python community. They were really proud that 20% of attendees were female (that was on a keynote slide), Guido wore a "python is for girls" shirt (as he did last year), the Pyladies organization sponsored a ton of events (py…

I think I see where you're coming from, but "totally inappropriate" seems excessive to me.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#595

Post by fatjokes »

paranoiacblack wrote: post #586
fatjokes wrote: post #487

My money is that she'll just use these criticisms as "proof" that tech is sexist.

Well, these might not be "proof", but would she be wrong in saying that? HINT: Look at the assumptions in your post.

I think she'd certainly be wrong. I made the assumption based on her responses to comments on her blog (in which she denies any hint of wrongdoing even when confronted by a polite, rational comment by someone who appears to be a friend/acquaintance of hers), as well as her actions to begin with.

I didn't make that assumption because she's a woman.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#596

Post by marshray »

mwetzler wrote: post #307

Not mentioned is the fact that Adria has received a FLOOD of hateful, violent, racist, and misogynistic comments as a result of a _tweet_. Adria DID NOT get someone fired. She tweeted a picture and comments about something that made her uncomfortable at a tech conference. As a result she has now been called a b_tch, c_nt, wh_re, n_gger, and an "affirmative action hire". People are saying things like "someone with her…

Isn't she some kind of YouTube public figure? You've never read YouTube comments before?

I don't have proof either way, but somehow I doubt it's the Python developers of the world who are mostly responsible for that "FLOOD of hateful, violent, racist, and misogynistic comments".

Re: The PyCon Incident

#598

Post by corresation »

jasonlotito wrote: post #281
sergiotapia wrote: post #17

I already sent SendGrid's sales department an email that I will boycott their company and recommend others do so as well moving forward. Where I work we were considering between SendGrid or Mandrill and this incident practically made our choice for us. We cannot and _will not_ support a company that backs[1] a person like this. [1] - https://twitter.com/adriarichards/status/314452708549603328

So, just to be clear, you are boycotting a company that employees someone who upholds the code of conduct agreed to by all attendees of pycon, but make no mention of the company that actually fired the guy. Gotcha.

There is a dramatic difference between twitter hysterics and unleashing a lynch mob (and a woman under duress is a dangerous weapon to unleash on the intertubes), and direct messaging responsible parties. Had she messaged pycon (if she wasn't willing to simply ask them to shut up) this would be a non-story. But, as many suspect, she had to take the opportunity to be the hero of the story to save that little girl on the stage, unless of course that little girl on the stage says something that might be construed as offensive in the future, losing their job and reputation as a result.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#599

Post by xymostech »

katbyte wrote: post #528
xymostech wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She took the picture before she got the pycon people involved. You can tell because of the times on her tweets. The picture was tweeted at 10:32, and she started calling for the pycon staff at 10:34.

that doesn't really make any difference, she still took the pictures and publicly shamed them and even now after everything leaves the photo up.

I'm not saying it does, just pointing out the order. I agree, no matter which way it happened, it was bad.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#600

Post by jessaustin »

zem wrote: post #410
jessaustin wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ummm, my reading of the thread is that we're not going to do business with Adria's employer because of her actions. That's a different thing.

different how? you're holding them responsible for something adria did at pycon.

You don't see a difference between an employee losing her job and a company losing some business? You must be in management.
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