India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir • Hacker News Board

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#641

Post by aprilthird2021 » Thu, May 08, 2025, 4:38 AM UTC

Brigand wrote: post #396

aprilthird2021 wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This always seems really disingenuous to me. He was hiding in an extremely concealed manner. Never ever went outside, and it's not as if the Pakistani military can just break into every house nearby and search for him everywhere. How they caught him was crazy in and of itself, and required fake vaccination drives, another thing no military can do to its own people to catch terrorists. I really don't think they are bl…

They absolutely covered Bin Laden. The intelligence agencies are not of your opinion: „Counterterrorism officials told Logan that there is no way the Pakistanis didn't know about this.“ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/did-pakistan-know-where-bin-lad...

I mean, there is a way they didn't know it though. There aren't any hard evidences available today that prove this happened. Imo, it's pretty unlikely. Like I said, he never left the compound or ever got any sunlight. He didn't even have internet access. He passed all his messages through couriers to other people. When he was found, out of his enormous trove of documents, not a single one indicated any kind of coordination with any intelligence service.

I also don't get what Pakistan gains from sheltering him. Turning him into the US aids them tremendously, and Al Qaeda was not a valuable or useful asset for years before Bin Laden was found. New groups were forming at the time as well, so they could have easily turned him and handed the money over to those groups which had beef with him anyways. Again, it's all assuming they were sheltering him knowingly.

Like I said before. He was very close by, but he was locked down in a compound. How many people here on HN know anything about the people or activities going on in the house 2 blocks away from them? The army also cannot just search everyone's house randomly.

Consider India, they equally have pretty poor competence with catching terrorists. Many of the biggest terrorist attacks in India were not caught and evaded detection. Even the latest terrorists seem to have evaded detection. Pakistan doesn't have a far more advanced security service. Isn't it far more likely they are incompetent? Idk, the harboring Bin Laden claim never made much sense and Occam's Razor always told me the most likely option is probably the real one, in the absence of any hard evidence.

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#642

Post by aprilthird2021 » Thu, May 08, 2025, 4:41 AM UTC

ganarajpr wrote: post #306

aprilthird2021 wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This always seems really disingenuous to me. He was hiding in an extremely concealed manner. Never ever went outside, and it's not as if the Pakistani military can just break into every house nearby and search for him everywhere. How they caught him was crazy in and of itself, and required fake vaccination drives, another thing no military can do to its own people to catch terrorists. I really don't think they are bl…

Lol, whats disingenuous is your arguments, honestly. So, either you have to argue that Pakistan's military is extremely idiotic / naive that it could not even detect a known terrorist living just around the corner or you have to argue that they knowingly kept him in their "shadow". The vast majority of the people believe its the latter - you are free to believe that they were idiots.

I do think the Pakistani intelligence and military are probably as competent as the Indian ones given the money, similar levels of development of state, etc. And Indian intelligences are not Mossad-level in any way. My belief is that they didn't know and were embarrassed. I mean, what would they gain from harboring Bin Laden, so wanted he can barely move anywhere, and Al Qaeda, a group that's basically been useless since way before his capture? There are new groups they could fund and arm all while giving up Bin Laden. They already caught and turned over other AQ figures before, so even if they sponsored other terror groups, why keep him?

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#643

Post by aprilthird2021 » Thu, May 08, 2025, 4:48 AM UTC

legolas2412 wrote: post #520

aprilthird2021 wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This always seems really disingenuous to me. He was hiding in an extremely concealed manner. Never ever went outside, and it's not as if the Pakistani military can just break into every house nearby and search for him everywhere. How they caught him was crazy in and of itself, and required fake vaccination drives, another thing no military can do to its own people to catch terrorists. I really don't think they are bl…

Please read about Dr. Shakil Afridi. The doctor who helped CIA find Laden has been in Pakistani prison for a decade plus now, on false drummed up charges. Why are you sure that Pakistan is not supporting terrorists now, after decades and decades of evidence otherwise?

I know about him. Idk, if you ever lived in India, you'd know the govt puts people in jail on trumped up charges all the time. Pakistan is probably the same. And this guy did do a fake vaccination drive for a foreign power. Indian police would have dealt with him the same probably...

As for evidence, there isn't hard evidence that Pakistan supported Bin Laden. And I'd expect that after he was caught. The US, where many ministers and army personnel and intelligence chiefs were skeptical when he was found, eventually said there was no hard evidence linking Pakistan secret services to Bin Laden. They were so skeptical of this link that they didn't tell them the nature of the raid which found him, for fear of tipping him off.

I think it's just what it looks like on the surface. It looks suspicious, so that's why everyone was suspicious. But when we looked into it, it wasn't what it looked like.

I don't doubt Pakistan supports some proxy terrorists. That is what nearly every nation-state does these days. I just doubt they sheltered Bin Laden, worth far more to them in US hands than elsewhere, after seeing what they did in Afghanistan to the last group who sheltered him, way past his prime. That too while being good enough to scrub any evidence of the connection? I just don't think there's motive or proof of it

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#644

Post by aprilthird2021 » Thu, May 08, 2025, 4:50 AM UTC

leosanchez wrote: post #494

aprilthird2021 wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm inclined to consider India a safer nation for most muslim denominations. Come on. You can't live in India and think this seriously. Anyways, the Kashmir issue is contentious but Kashmiris never got to say whether they should be part of India or not, unlike most states and people during partition. I am very aware the full history of the region is murky and that the removal of Kashmiri Pandits from the region led…

> Come on. You can't live in India and think this seriously. I don't know where you live. There are states in India where minorities are absolutely safe.

I lived in Gujarat and Rajasthan, so point taken. My uncle had to flee Surat during communal violence concealed in an ambulance

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#645

Post by nnain » Thu, May 08, 2025, 5:11 AM UTC

Hilift wrote: post #579

Even if Pakistan wanted to do something to reign in the extremists near the borders, they don't have the resources. Pakistan required a $7 billion loan from the IMF last September just to function. This is a very precarious situation for towns near the border or the tribals. "Violent extremist groups continue to plot attacks in Pakistan". https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/... https://www.bbc…

So India is helping them clear some of those camps. Pakistan can very well be thankful for this one then!

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#646

Post by lmm » Thu, May 08, 2025, 5:27 AM UTC

enugu wrote: post #482

lmm wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Should the terror attacks in the US or France not have had a military response? Probably, yes. Military responses to terrorism are almost always counterproductive. I don't know which specific attacks you're talking about, but the ones I can think of the US did far more damage to itself with the blowback than the original attack ever achieved.

Note that I am not referring to the prolonged occupation of Afghanistan, much less of Iraq here. Rather, something like a strike which targets bin Laden and other organizers of the terrorist attack.

So it doesn't matter that military responses that have actually been tried in the real world have been counterproductive, because you can imagine other kinds of military responses and you imagine that those kinds of military responses would have gone better?

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#647

Post by dang » Thu, May 08, 2025, 5:46 AM UTC

SanjayMehta wrote: post #639

dang wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear you, but it's the other way around: when such posts appear, commenters need to be aware of their emotional reactions and (let's say) organize them in a way that respects the spirit of the community: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html . This of course is far from easy, but it's what we all (including the admins) need to do.

The rest of the threads in this post are all over the place.

Maybe so, but we need you to focus on your own contributions—making sure that they're within the site guidelines and the intended spirit of HN.

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#648

Post by SanjayMehta » Thu, May 08, 2025, 6:03 AM UTC

dang wrote: post #647

SanjayMehta wrote: post #639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rest of the threads in this post are all over the place.

Maybe so, but we need you to focus on your own contributions—making sure that they're within the site guidelines and the intended spirit of HN.

What is the intended spirit of HN?

Hypocrisy?

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#649

Post by riffraff » Thu, May 08, 2025, 6:49 AM UTC

FullGarden_S wrote: post #347

roenxi wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And with the benefit of more context it is pretty clear he wasn't admitting to anything - the interview started with him condemning terrorism and the quotes in question was more him pointing out [0] that everyone has been funding terrorist groups in his part of the world and he thinks Pakistan has suffered for it. Pakistan might be involved in this one, they might not be. I don't know. But that clip isn't evidence ei…

>He's quite insistent that Pakistan wasn't involved in the topical attacks. Yes, just like how Pakistan was insistent about their involvement in sheltering Bin Laden. I don't understand why you expect any representative of a nation to confess explicitly to their crimes themselves but things like that just don't happen. Confession to their indirect involvement is the leading clue to majority of their actions and furth…

You're replying to a thread that started with "the defence ministry admitted".

So the expectation here is that in the video he admits that, and he does not.

Nobody expected that to be true, that was the whole point.

Re: India launches attack on 9 sites in Pakistan and Pakistani Jammu and Kashmir

#650

Post by throw63 » Thu, May 08, 2025, 6:55 AM UTC

sdsd wrote: post #580

throw63 wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and for me that’s science and tech tree maxed out. Hate to ruin it for you, but as soon as the economic elites don't need the masses anymore (eg because AGI produces goods and entertainment better than we do), we'll become a liability, dead weight, so they'll quickly use that same maxed out tech that made us obsolete to make us gone.

Wouldn't it make them dead weight, too? Their status as merely "economic" elites seems like a shaky position if the world becomes post scarcity.

Not quite. It's not about being economic elite per se, but about being part of the handful of people who will control the tech. That might well end up being a single person or family, of course. (I assume that AGI will not take over, rather the humans who program it will. I also assume that, unlike movie villains who need to keep rivals alive so that we can get an entertaining story, real life villains will not take chances and kill off almost everyone.)