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Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

reuters.com

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Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#641

Post by hackerknew »

mminer237 wrote: post #114
bpodgursky wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone is tired of this shit. Bibi will be on meathooks if he unilaterally backs out. Hamas will have no friends at all if they renege.

Hamas did not lose any friends the last few times they reneged. I think both sides agree this peace will just last until Hamas can rearm, but I just think both sides agree that's as good a deal as either is getting.

> the last few

There have been over 10 “ceasefires” that ended with Hamas firing rockets into Israel, in the last 20 years.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#642

Post by GordonS »

wqaatwt wrote: post #576
slt2021 wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the difference between terrorists and freedom fighters is temporal. Yesterday they were called terrorists by the mainstream, tomorrow when they win they will be hailed as heroes and freedom fighters. the zionists were also called terrorists by the UK in the beginning, especially when they bombed king david hotel

Except Zionists are capable of establishing and running a democratic state (however flawed according to some it might be). It would be silly to pretend that’s even remotely close to being an option for Hamas. For starters modern Islamic fundamentalism is inherently incompatible with democracy (amongst other reasons). Expecting that organizations like Hamas could somehow magically change for the better is pure madness…

Hamas is not an Islamic fundamentalist organisation. They are Muslims, but they have not twisted the religion for extremism; they are not ISIS or Al-Qaeda.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#644

Post by JumpCrisscross »

southernplaces7 wrote: post #629
xg15 wrote: post #21

Everything else aside, this is an absolutely fantastic development and I really hope the ceasefire holds and all hostages are released. I just fear this will cause western media and politicians to and declare the crisis to be over (after it had began on Oct. 7, of course absolutely out of the blue and without any context...) and go back to pretending everything is back to normal. Never mind that Gaza is still in ruin…

>And never mind that Israel still has a fundamentalist, authoritarian government that is actively at work undermining democratic structures and civil rights even inside the state As opposed to the neighboring states (and Hamas), which mostly have religiously tolerant, fully democratic governments that fully respect civil rights, and which of course have never openly stated that they want Israel to disappear from exis…

The further we are from a people, the more we tend to group them into monoliths. As monoliths, both sides are monsters, with the best one can argue being that one side's monstrosity is justified.

Break them down further and you can find the actual monsters--those self-interestedly seeking either their own aims, or, some random aim at any cost, even when the aim is impossible and its costs massive.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#645

Post by edanm »

coffeebeqn wrote: post #531
amluto wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would there really be much support within Israel to continue the war if all the hostages were already released?

What are their goals at this point? Looks to me as an outsider like they’ve had multiple wins and should take that. Hezbollah, Syria, successful strike on Irans missile facilities, Gaza is a pile of rubble.

The goal is to eliminate Hamas, or at least prevent them for returning to rule the Gaza strip. That has not been accomplished.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#646

Post by ignoramous »

aprilthird2021 wrote: post #625
throwaway2037 wrote: post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a great post. Thank you to share your personal experience. Do you think they were first generation Palestinians? Or multi-generation (parents or earlier immigrated)? I know that Michigan state (Detroit, etc.) has one of the largest Arab communities in the United States.

I went to school with some first generation Palestinians just 5-ish years ago. One of them had to miss an entire quarter because Israel just wouldn't allow him to leave. He has never been back to Palestine since then because another detainment or missed visa problem, etc. would derail his career.

> One of them had to miss an entire quarter because Israel just wouldn't allow him to leave

Terrible.

Even in the current ceasefire terms, there's an explicit provision to have Israel agree to let the injured leave for treatment to neighbouring countries and be allowed to come back to the Strip.

Despite arguments to contrary, I can see why some claim it is an open-air prison.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#647

Post by mysecretaccount »

tptacek wrote: post #639
mysecretaccount wrote: post #636

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"[Hamas] should have taken the deal when it was first offered [because this list of people died afterward]" sure sounds like a moral argument to me.

I couldn't possibly have given less of a fuck whether Hassan Nasrallah drew another breath; the point is that Hamas and all the regional forces backing it were drastically compromised and/or reduced to their combustion products in the months that followed their May 27 rejection, and they are in much worse shape today. They should have taken the deal in May.

The timing of their acceptance of a 42-day ceasefire - whether now or eight months prior - bears little significance for the long-term outlook of Hamas or the civilian death toll in Gaza. Strange analysis to hang your hat on, Thomas.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#648

Post by redmajor12 »

zkry wrote: post #631
boringg wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While this is a good development. Everything in this part of the world is on a rinse snd repeat cycle ever since the Assyrians and the Babylonians - it hasn't changed much except maybe its actually a little more humane then it was in the past (which says something). Sorry for the cynical take but this just does a temporary stop.

> Everything in this part of the world is on a rinse snd repeat cycle ever since the Assyrians and the Babylonians That's an incredible statement, as if the rest of the world is somehow different. The only thing special about these regions is that they've had complex states for longer, so of course state-based warfare would go back farther. On another level, there absolutely have been periods of stability in regions…

Western Europe went through ~200 years of brutal religious wars from the advent of Protestantism. The same is going on in the Mideast, it just started only 100 years ago with the fall of the Ottoman Empire.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#649

Post by redmajor12 »

gravisultra wrote: post #296
boringg wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While this is a good development. Everything in this part of the world is on a rinse snd repeat cycle ever since the Assyrians and the Babylonians - it hasn't changed much except maybe its actually a little more humane then it was in the past (which says something). Sorry for the cynical take but this just does a temporary stop.

That's not true at all. The current conflict isn't some thousand year old feud. It was very much caused by the deliberate provocation and importation of European settlers via Zionism. It's easy to wave our hands and say "it's so complicated!" or "they've been doing this for thousands of years!" but it's not complicated, much like apartheid South Africa, Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan were not complicated. Colonialis…

True, but Israel could be seen as just the latest Crusade.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#650

Post by wa_wa_wi_wa »

xg15 wrote: post #21

Everything else aside, this is an absolutely fantastic development and I really hope the ceasefire holds and all hostages are released. I just fear this will cause western media and politicians to and declare the crisis to be over (after it had began on Oct. 7, of course absolutely out of the blue and without any context...) and go back to pretending everything is back to normal. Never mind that Gaza is still in ruin…

> of course absolutely out of the blue and without any context

LOL

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