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Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

haaretz.com

641–650 of 807 posts

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#641
post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And let's keep in mind that the term "Public Relations" was explicitly chosen as a Newspeak-term because Edward Bernays realised that the actual term for a war time methodology, "propaganda", was too loaded.[0] And honest. Internet is a communications medium. It was destined to be flooded with propaganda, whatever you try to call your particular flavour. Or as I have been saying since the 1990's, the only difference…

> the only difference between marketing and propaganda is that with marketing at least you are trying to peddle a product instead of an ideology Marketing often includes the peddling of an ideology as a foundation for the product buying, especially for big-ticket items. (One buys the product that fits and signals one’s ideology.) To me, this makes marketing even more insidious as we often focus on the product rather…

> Think Ford, Tesla, Apple

And guns.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#642
post #634

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's a believer. He want several things that can't be well understood by the non-religious. He wants the al Aqsa mosque demolished/removed, so the temple can be rebuilt. He wants all of Jerusalem. And, even what he would call all of "Greater Israel" eventually. In that order, but he's willing to settle for those things out of order if it looks possible. A peaceful neighboring Palestine doesn't allow for any of that.…

None of that seems accurate, not when it comes to Netanyahu. He's not a religious zealot and almost certainly isn't pursuing anything because of religion. > But there are millions of people in Israel that want nothing more than this. And he is their leader. I don't think there are millions in Israel that want Al Aqsa demolished, that is a delusion that has no historical basis at all. There are of course religious ext…

> I don't think there are millions in Israel that want Al Aqsa demolished,

There are well over 1 million ultra-orthodox. There's also a not-really-countable number of non-ultra-orthodox who want the same thing, but their opinions are a bit more diverse. Say, somewhere around 1.6-2 million. That's plural millions, as far as I understand grammar.

>They believe there is no safety to be found with a Palestinian state next door (with good reason, see what happened in Gaza).

They also believe there's no safety for a single state solution, because Palestinians will eventually become the majority, and vote out the jews. There is of course, an unspoken third option as well. No one would admit to favoring that.

> Israel is spending millions with the iron dome to shoot down those rockets,

The debris has to land somewhere. It doesn't just evaporate. Could someone finagle it so that it lands where they want? Would be a beat trick. Just have to wait for the right trajectory, one would think.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#643
post #620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the (arguably) unequal focus only Israel's human rights record relative to other countries Two thoughts on this: Firstly, every time a country is getting criticized for it's human rights abuses it, like clockwork, raises the spectre of being "unjustly singled out" about it's human rights abuses. To be clear, I would very much like every country on earth that engages in human rights abuses prosecuted for it, includi…

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So did Beijing bomb the Uyghurs? Do you see Uyghurs anywhere cry for kins killed by bombs or houses destroyed? How can you compare China with Israel?

Also, sure Uyghurs killed Hans in riots, and they sure have conducted terrorist attacks in China.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#644

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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'False' is a matter of opinion, not an absolute. eg: 26 March 2024 Human Rights https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/03/1147976 Citing international law, Ms. Albanese explained that genocide is defined as a specific set of acts committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group. “Specifically, Israel has committed three acts of genocide with the requisite intent: cau…

> the genocide in Gaza is the most extreme stage of a long-standing settler colonial process of erasure of the native Palestinians,

Hilarious considering every conflict has been started by Palestine. Ceasefires broken by Hamas on multiple occasions. And there’s no settler colonial process happening now or in the past.

But let’s continue to blame Israel when Hamas kills people trying to get food or supplies. Or blame Israel when Hamas fires its own rocket at a parking lot and claims 500 dead. Let’s blame Israel for trying to wipe out a terrorist organization that’s sole purpose is to wipe out the Jewish population and wipe Israel off the map.

While Israel is quite restrained. We will keep calling it genocide even tho ACTUAL genocide is happening every day in Iran and China and Africa. It’s fun to ignore what’s happening elsewhere so we can focus on Israel and making up things that aren’t happening.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#645
post #634

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of that seems accurate, not when it comes to Netanyahu. He's not a religious zealot and almost certainly isn't pursuing anything because of religion. > But there are millions of people in Israel that want nothing more than this. And he is their leader. I don't think there are millions in Israel that want Al Aqsa demolished, that is a delusion that has no historical basis at all. There are of course religious ext…

> I don't think there are millions in Israel that want Al Aqsa demolished, There are well over 1 million ultra-orthodox. There's also a not-really-countable number of non-ultra-orthodox who want the same thing, but their opinions are a bit more diverse. Say, somewhere around 1.6-2 million. That's plural millions, as far as I understand grammar. >They believe there is no safety to be found with a Palestinian state nex…

> There are well over 1 million ultra-orthodox. There's also a not-really-countable number of non-ultra-orthodox who want the same thing, but their opinions are a bit more diverse. Say, somewhere around 1.6-2 million. That's plural millions, as far as I understand grammar.

First, you're assuming that all ultra-Orthodox want to see Al Aqsa demolished, which is a huge assumption that is probably not correct.

Second, in a country of 9 million people, I think it's misleading to say that "millions want" when referring to less than 2 million. I think saying about a country of 9m people that "millions want to see an incredibly important place/monument destroyed" gives a very wrong impression of what is the general spirit here, and is especially misleading because "Al Aqsa is in danger" has been a common worry of the Palestinians for a hundred years, with very little factual basis for that worry, IMO.

> They also believe there's no safety for a single state solution, because Palestinians will eventually become the majority, and vote out the jews.

Of course. The one state solution is a ridiculous non-solution as acknowledged by every official international body that has ever considered the problem, and as acknowledged by about 99% of the people living in the region. And as agreed by the parties themselves in the Oslo accords and ensuing future peace process in which the plan was to find a way to create two states living side by side.

> There is of course, an unspoken third option as well. No one would admit to favoring that.

Unfortunately, you're wrong about that. There is a small, minority, but currently influential group of Israelis that pretty explicitly espouses the idea of, in their words, "voluntary relocation". Which everyone reads as a pretty implicit call for ethnic cleansing.

> The debris has to land somewhere. It doesn't just evaporate.

No kidding. Plenty of people have been hurt by this debris, and I've seen pieces of it - those can be pretty big chunks of metal falling on people's heads.

Still, the implication that it would somehow be part of Israel's plan to destroy Al Aqsa to keep the war going so that maybe debris from rockets that Israel shoots down would land on Al Aqsa, and the implication that this would then be Israel's fault, and not the fault of the people shooting the rockets at Al Aqsa in the first place, is... I don't know what to even call it beyond morally absurd.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#646

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'False' is a matter of opinion, not an absolute. eg: 26 March 2024 Human Rights https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/03/1147976 Citing international law, Ms. Albanese explained that genocide is defined as a specific set of acts committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group. “Specifically, Israel has committed three acts of genocide with the requisite intent: cau…

> the genocide in Gaza is the most extreme stage of a long-standing settler colonial process of erasure of the native Palestinians, Hilarious considering every conflict has been started by Palestine. Ceasefires broken by Hamas on multiple occasions. And there’s no settler colonial process happening now or in the past. But let’s continue to blame Israel when Hamas kills people trying to get food or supplies. Or blame…

I believe we've already established that your opinion doesn't align with the opinions of others.

> But let’s

Please don't speak for me, or for others when expressing your opinion.

> It’s fun to ignore what’s happening elsewhere

Perhaps for you but again, please don't speak for myself or for others.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#647

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the logic is something like this: * my grandmother can't recognize fake information * my grandmother is old * politicians are old * therefore politicians can't recognize fake information Politics has always been full of deception, people doing politics professionally for decades should know a bit or two about it.

I shouldn't have implied it's 100%, but on average, how many gen Z'ers are getting scammed online vs. Boomers? Kids these days just know everything is a scam or BS, but I can't seem to convince my parents' generation that someone would lie to them via e-mail.

My point is that top-level politicians are not your average grandma.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#648

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I shouldn't have implied it's 100%, but on average, how many gen Z'ers are getting scammed online vs. Boomers? Kids these days just know everything is a scam or BS, but I can't seem to convince my parents' generation that someone would lie to them via e-mail.

My point is that top-level politicians are not your average grandma.

And yet their ranks have examples of senior top level politicians being scammed or phished at similar ball park rates to other people.

eg: (Various headlines)

* Australian Politicians Keep Falling For Telegram Scams

* The phishing email that hacked the account of John Podesta

* Who is behind the Westminster WhatsApp 'honeytrap' stings?

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. It is very obvious, as Levitz points out above, that Israel can just cozy up to the Chinese or the Russians if Uncle Sam washes its hands of it, China and Russia who would jump at the chance to gain a foothold in the Middle East, right next door to all those industrial juice springs. If I may. But even if that were not the case 20 years is plenty of time to cleanse Gaza, and the West Bank with it, of ever…

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