Elon Musk moves to Texas • Hacker News Board

Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#641

Post by anchpop » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 9:26 PM UTC

menssen wrote: post #94

jowday wrote: post #14

Isn't the actual listed location of residence more a formality for a billionaire like Musk? I presume he'll still rent residences in LA and the Bay Area considering he'll be back and forth for business related to Tesla and SpaceX. This seems like he's renting a place in Texas and making a big deal out of 'moving there' to make a point about California's regulatory environment.

Finance YouTuber Graham Stephen recently made a big deal out of moving from Los Angeles to Vegas because the tax savings more-or-less paid for a giant mansion in Vegas. (And because of some slightly cringey comments about not wanting to see so many homeless people, but that's not the editorial comment I'm trying to make right now.) But, he's keeping his house in CA (for "weekends and vacations"), and he's building hi…

why is it cringey to not want to see too many homeless people? the existence of homeless people is a failure of the state and it’s perfectly reasonable to want to avoid them on the basis of personal safety.

Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#642

Post by manigandham » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 9:27 PM UTC

knowaveragejoe wrote: post #632

manigandham wrote: post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crime and gang activity is increasing, especially in prisons where every yard is now active. Local street gangs sets have multiplied with the influx of people (many homeless), drugs, welfare and larger organized crime operations. Also recent policies decriminalized many acts and have led to rampant street crime in areas like SF and LA. CA provides sanctuary status for illegal immigrants, along with driver licenses, f…

> CA provides sanctuary status for illegal immigrants, along with driver licenses, free healthcare and other benefits paid for by tax-paying citizens. I see these easily debunked anti-immigration talking points regularly elsewhere on the web in right-wing circles, but I'm surprised to see it on HN. I encourage anyone interested in the reality of immigration(including the common myths like the above) to either read Op…

You didn't debunk anything but only posted some open-border ideology.

Feel free to actually respond to the specific policies that are affecting the state of California instead. Here's just 1 example to get you started: Illegal immigrants have free healthcare until the age of 26 in California, however tax-paying law-abiding citizens are fined if they don't have health insurance.

Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#643

Post by gowld » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 9:27 PM UTC

JPKab wrote: post #547

mrits wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up in Tyler but have lived in Austin for 15 years. I don't mean to be argumentative but you seem to be comparing Small town Texas with "Big City" California. I've vacationed in smaller towns in California and the conservative nature of those areas remind me a lot of Tyler,Texas.

Your onto something, and I think another crucial detail is that the small, southern town I grew up in is more tolerant of gay folks now than the vast majority of big cities were 20 years ago. There's been such a massive shift in tolerance towards gay humans across the entire culture that comparing any place I go to NOW vs where I grew up WHEN I was a kid is a massive difference. Compared to 2020 Anywhere, 2000 Anywhe…

Then why is homophobia still a winning campaign platform in so many states?

Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#644

Post by dcolkitt » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 9:28 PM UTC

boringg wrote: post #73

busterarm wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

California has a $54B deficit this year. It's been all over the news, including very left-wing sources like NY Times and Politico. The state _projected_ a surplus and was off by an entire order of magnitude into the red. The state has been campaigning to Congress all year for about $14B in bailout money.

Yes, most places in the country have a massive deficit this year because states are spending money to protect their citizens and stimulate the economy. So this year is an odd year for most states... don't try and single out California as this bad actor that can't manage its finances. That narrative is misleading.

> don't try and single out California as this bad actor that can't manage its finances

California's 2020 budget shortfall is projected at $54 billion.[1] Florida's 2020 budget shortfall is projected at $2.7 billion[2]. In other words, on a per-capita basis, California has ten times the shortfall as Florida.

[1] https://www.gov.ca.gov/2020/06/29/governor-newsom-signs-2020... [2] https://www.heraldtribune.com/story/news/politics/state/2020...

Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#645

Post by realdlee » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 9:28 PM UTC

stanford_labrat wrote: post #421

scop wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See my reply on a parallel comment. I will be moving to a more diverse area. It's remarkable how "I don't like the Bay Area" translates so easily to "racist dogwhistle". Quality of life means things like: - "there are children in my neighborhood" - "I don't need to keep looking over my shoulder at the playground with my children" - "I can get a 15-yr mortgage on a house that is 2000 sqft, be financially stable, and s…

I don't think many people are attempting to raise children in SF proper, where this anecdote takes place, but walking into a safeway parking lot and having to dodge used needles is not what I would call high quality of life. Although in all fairness, I am not aware of the drug situation in other parts of the country.

There are plenty of families in SF proper. If you don't have kids, you understandably aren't spending much time in parks, playgrounds, and kid-friendly neighborhoods.

Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#646

Post by tick_tock_tick » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 9:28 PM UTC

monoideism wrote: post #595

Dudelander wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some views Moderate Democrats held in the 90s could be very far right, depending on the subject. Bill Clinton supported "Don't ask, don't tell" and the defense of marriage act. They were considered moderate in the 90s, but I would classify them as far right today. A moderate in the 1930s could literally have supported Fascism, and the "progressive" Woodrow Wilson supported the Klu Klux Klan. I'm not saying this appli…

Exactly. By your standards, Bill Clinton was "far right". Excellent example. For the record, I support civil rights protections for all humans, including gays on the basis on sexual orientation. I disagreed then with most of Bill Clinton's policies toward gay rights (I also strongly supported making marriage a uniquely civil institution vis-a-vis government recognition available to all citizens, like France). By the…

If you didn't say it was Obama and polled Democrat's based on his actions/views I'd be pretty confident they'd say "far right".

Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#647

Post by ddoolin » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 9:28 PM UTC

manigandham wrote: post #555

ddoolin wrote: post #537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crime in almost every category has gone down over the last decade. You have to be crazy to think gang activity has gotten worse over the same time period. Immigration is not the domain of the state. I'd argue that given the number of people here, the traffic could be a lot worse. I've personally seen worse gridlock on worse infrastructure in other states with less people. Even if you account for the days that fires a…

Crime and gang activity is increasing, especially in prisons where every yard is now active. Local street gangs sets have multiplied with the influx of people (many homeless), drugs, welfare and larger organized crime operations. Also recent policies decriminalized many acts and have led to rampant street crime in areas like SF and LA. CA provides sanctuary status for illegal immigrants, along with driver licenses, f…

Illegal immigration should not be seen a failing of the state but as the abject failure of the federal government's immigration policies. Texas has, proportional to total population, more illegal immigrants than California and indeed any other state (at least by estimates). And guess what? They are getting free healthcare there and everywhere else too! If California's sanctuary policies are what's preventing the feds from deporting them, why does Texas, who is staunchly anti-illegal, continue to boast such a high illegal population? I'm actually proud that California gives some small humanity to the illegal immigrants here since the federal government has decided not to do the job that they decry as such a huge problem.

Also, it's really...strange...to place the blame for the fires or the weather at the foot of the state.

Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#648

Post by majormajor » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 9:29 PM UTC

JKCalhoun wrote: post #309

majormajor wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile, I'm holding my breath that enough richer-than-most folks will move to make house prices go down a bit instead of up 10% since last year like https://ktla.com/news/local-news/socal-homes-prices-again-se... Seems like they're still moving in instead of moving out, for now, though.

Wondering if Prop 13 is the cause of Cal-flight. Is it driving home prices up? Or is it robbing the state coffers of a tax revenue that has to be made up elsewhere? I don't know.

I think it's probably overstated, California isn't the only place that's seen urban areas with a lot of high-paying jobs + a lot of property value growth in the last few decades.

It probably means prices are a bit higher than they could be, and people have stayed in their current property longer than they might've, but as a dominant factor? It's a lazy explanation since expensive city property is a problem elsewhere in the US and internationally too.

That continued price growth also tells you that "exodus" is a misleading oversimplification, since it means people are still buying. It wouldn't be too expensive for the people leaving if there weren't richer people buying!

(Even in a prop-13-less CA, the additional people selling their current properties to buy new CA properties instead would be adding to both the buyer pool and seller pool, it's not like there'd be an increase in inventory without an increase in buyers. So price effects seem potentially weak?)

Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#649

Post by omgwtfbyobbq » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 9:29 PM UTC

woah wrote: post #584

fortran77 wrote: post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> while old residents pay nothing This is patently false. Property taxes can and do raise 2%/year. California does need to build new housing.

You are quite simply wrong. Here is a map showing how next door neighbors frequently have a 10x difference in property taxes paid on equivalent dwellings: https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/map-bay-area-property-ta...

You're both right. Property taxes can increase by up to 2% per year, and new owners frequently pay far more than old owners because property has appreciated significantly in coastal metros with limited space for new construction.

This had been especially obvious because historically low interest rates have enabled a lot of asset appreciation, with real estate being one example. High real estate prices lead to high property taxes, which makes the difference in taxes paid much more obvious.

NIMBYism also plays a part, but I think people routinely overlook that developers often don't improve local facilities in line with local housing projects, which can lead to all kinds of awfulness. That new 1000 unit apartment complex also needs 1000+ parking spaces, along with other improvements in local infrastructure in proportion to the increase in population, but a developer won't care about that unless someone forces them to care.

Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#650

Post by tradertef » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 9:29 PM UTC

siberianbear wrote: post #323

bagacrap wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this a successful way to dodge taxes? If so, that loophole should be fixed. I left California 4 years ago and yet somehow still pay taxes to the state. If you're saying that anyone who was professionally successful in California has no right to ever leave the state, that seems like a tough sell.

(I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice) I left California for Nevada many years ago, and I subsequently sold stock I accumulated while in California without paying state income tax. It is legal and you can do it, but there are a lot of legal hurdles. They're pretty well documented around page 5 of FTB 1031 [1]. In my case, I quit my W2 job in California, entered into a contract to lease a home in NV, got rid of…

Thank you for this. Very useful for someone considering moving out :)