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YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

reuters.com

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Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#641

Post by Nasrudith »

shadowgovt wrote: post #527
brongondwana wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fediverse would be better because it wouldn't have an algorithm choosing things to show you based on what keeps you engaged.

Why not? In the era of the attention economy, an algorithm generating engagement keeps people more engaged. I think it's naive to assume that a fediverse wouldn't eventually include somebody developing such an algorithm that becomes popular among the average user base.

It is even more naive because everything already optimized for engagement by selective pressure without algorithms. Headlines were the original clickbait.

Blaming algorithims is the "big lie" essentially of repeating something enough that people eventually believe it is true. I noticed it before and dismissed it as the bullshit it was but even computer literate people are falling for the hysteria.

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#642

Post by nradov »

hartator wrote: post #596
leetcrew wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you won’t be able to advertise bleach as a way to get Corona out of your system. you can't do this in the US either if you're actually selling bleach. are you saying in europe ordinary people aren't allowed to publicly speculate about cures for the virus?

Specially that no one died from it. The story that got famous of the couple who did it was actually a murder. The wife never took the bleach, knew it was going to kill her husband, and hated Trump. She confessed to the police and now he is prison. But of course the media stopped talking about that story as soon as she confessed. Leaving people believing that a couple did try bleach to cure covid.

That is misinformation. The Mesa Arizona police aren't investigating the death of Gary Lenius as a homicide. His wife Wanda isn't in prison. The poison was chloroquine phosphate, not bleach.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/police-say-de...

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#643

Post by hef19898 »

jackhack wrote: post #528
Aeolun wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Censorship and other forms of regulating free speech is simply never a good solution. The almost free speech on the other side of the ocean seems to be working pretty well. You get to say anything that isn’t actively harmful to others, but you won’t be able to advertise bleach as a way to get Corona out of your system.

Nonsense. Almost free speech is censorship by another name. Working "pretty well?" Sure, unless one tries to talk about things that really matter and strays outside the dotted lines of permissibility. Some topics are verboten. When you say "other side of the ocean," I assume you're talking about Europe. Try to discuss the muslim rape gangs in the UK. Try to discuss the surge in grenade attacks and many-fold increase…

I had to google the UK and France stuff. Seems to be, as bad as they are, well covered single cases (one group of rapists in the UK and a couple of riots in Dijon). So what exactly are you not "allowed" to discuss?

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#644

Post by terhechte »

jackhack wrote: post #528
Aeolun wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Censorship and other forms of regulating free speech is simply never a good solution. The almost free speech on the other side of the ocean seems to be working pretty well. You get to say anything that isn’t actively harmful to others, but you won’t be able to advertise bleach as a way to get Corona out of your system.

Nonsense. Almost free speech is censorship by another name. Working "pretty well?" Sure, unless one tries to talk about things that really matter and strays outside the dotted lines of permissibility. Some topics are verboten. When you say "other side of the ocean," I assume you're talking about Europe. Try to discuss the muslim rape gangs in the UK. Try to discuss the surge in grenade attacks and many-fold increase…

> I think there are scores of political prisoners serving time for wrongthink who might disagree with your assertion that almost free speech is working pretty well.

So you're claiming that Sweden has put people into prison because they discussed the increase in rape? Citation please.

Your whole comment is a prime example of unfounded FUD. [1]

[1] With the exception of Russia, China, and probably Ukraine, but in what world do they belong in one bucket together with Sweden or France in terms of democracy?

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#645

Post by Nasrudith »

pjc50 wrote: post #425
TomSwirly wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you honestly claiming that banning paid lies on YouTube leads to Rohingya-style genocide? It's increasingly difficult to have rational conversations with Americans these days, and this idea is certainly a big part of it. It just astonishes me that Americans see little difference between a private company forbidding liars from using their free service, and people being rounded up at gunpoint and being killed.

I am not claiming that. In fact, it's probably necessary to prevent that kind of disaster, and I wish YouTube would ban a bit more aggressively - but also with more thought and better review. (I seem to have been misunderstood quite badly, a sibling comment to yours makes exactly the opposite allegation! Also, I'm a Brit) The risk of any ban system is that true-but-inconvenient stuff ends up getting banned as well. T…

Nah if you wanted to prevent the genocide you need to kill the perperators until they stop. Blaming the channel for genocide is as facile as blaming encryption for crime since in both cases they could talk to the same people to plan crimes. Genocide occured when humans were hunter-gatherers stop blaming the tech for it.

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#646

Post by ghufran_syed »

Njikl wrote: post #617
tossAfterUsing wrote: post #600

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada has some good examples of this.

Okay, then name the examples. It's not sufficient to say that examples exist without any further proof.

How about a case involving human rights law?

https://reason.com/2019/07/23/jessica-yaniv-da-silva-brazili...

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#647

Post by ntsplnkv2 »

read_if_gay_ wrote: post #583
ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're too concerned with edge cases to justify the absolute nightmare we are in with regards to information. For every "true" conspiracy theory there are millions of junk ones - of course some will be partially correct. We are so afraid of losing "one correct idea" that we allow orders of magnitude more bad ones to flourish and drown out good ideas anyway. Dealing with foreign powers abusing the system would be easy…

> We are so afraid of losing "one correct idea" that we allow orders of magnitude more bad ones to flourish and drown out good ideas anyway. The price we’re paying is not just that one correct idea. We’re giving up debate. That is expensive .

The large amounts of misinformation also threatens debate, does it not? Most misinformation and conspiracy theories are not looking for proper debate and often times result to logical fallacies and falsehoods to prove their point. Thus, proper debate is drowned out.

By and large I don't think debate is threatened. We have to draw a pragmatic line somewhere, otherwise we will waste time debating if the earth is flat and the endless amount of absurd ideas. Ultimately, we've already debated many of these ideals, if not explicitly.

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#648

Post by shawnz »

Mattasher wrote: post #543
jackhack wrote: post #528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonsense. Almost free speech is censorship by another name. Working "pretty well?" Sure, unless one tries to talk about things that really matter and strays outside the dotted lines of permissibility. Some topics are verboten. When you say "other side of the ocean," I assume you're talking about Europe. Try to discuss the muslim rape gangs in the UK. Try to discuss the surge in grenade attacks and many-fold increase…

Put another way, almost free speech works great for those with power, and badly for everyone else. When people advocate censorship of any kind, they're really saying, "I have the correct views held by the establishment, so I'm not worried about it."

> "I have the correct views held by the establishment, so I'm not worried about it."

If the establishment's views are strongly codified and checks and balances are in place to maintain them, is that so bad?

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#649

Post by trident1000 »

VBprogrammer wrote: post #638
trident1000 wrote: post #621

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absurd. Who are the arbiters of truth and what can and cannot be said? There is no such thing as almost free speech in a free society except perhaps for clear cut physical threats. Also big tech is going to end democracy as we know it unless we get serious. They can decide who gets elected into office and we are on a path to replacing elected representatives with kings.

BREAKING NEWS: trident1000 is a child molester; found with 6000 indecent images of children on his PC. For the record this is intended in jest

If you want free speech you need to learn to live with free speech. That means not believing everything you see, critically thinking, and actually vetting the sources yourself. Its a societal process that plays out over time. The answer is not to have content oligarchs that decide what is truth and can be seen. Statements like this eventually are just seen as noise and ignored as people look for verifiable truth via trusted sources within platforms. In short, it works itself out.

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#650

Post by neekleer »

hartator wrote: post #596
leetcrew wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you won’t be able to advertise bleach as a way to get Corona out of your system. you can't do this in the US either if you're actually selling bleach. are you saying in europe ordinary people aren't allowed to publicly speculate about cures for the virus?

Specially that no one died from it. The story that got famous of the couple who did it was actually a murder. The wife never took the bleach, knew it was going to kill her husband, and hated Trump. She confessed to the police and now he is prison. But of course the media stopped talking about that story as soon as she confessed. Leaving people believing that a couple did try bleach to cure covid.

You heard or remember the story wrong. There wasn't a bleach couple. That was a form of chloroquine as an ingredient in fish tank cleaner. In some media, it was equated to (hydroxy)choloroquine as a medicinal drug even though this pharmaceutical drug has a high safety rating. Also, I don't think anyone went to prison even though it's assumed the engineer husband would have not knowingly drank poison. The wife also ingested some, but she survived.

In any case, the media can't pretend they rely on arbiters of truth because there is bias all around. Trump's statements on disinfectants were not as incendiary as some people made them out to be. Disinfectants can sometimes be used in the lungs or body, but this is a question for the medical field. The media speculated about poison control calls surging after Trump's statements, but any small uptick seemed to already be present since people have resorted to rigorous use of disinfectants in the home going all the way back to March. Finally, with the focus on lockdowns and isolation, we've actually somewhat missed the point of the DHS briefing on disinfectants and UV decontamination. We were supposed to be looking for simple innovations that made going to places like the grocery store safer and more manageable, but I haven't seen much progress in this area.

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