Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows • Hacker News Board

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#641

Post by InfiniteRand » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 5:26 AM UTC

ravenstine wrote: post #344

watwut wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having home should not be requirement for having children. You quite literally don't need it.

That's not really the point, though. Of course you can have children with nothing but a shirt on your back. People want control over their lives, and this is one of the chief reasons why people want to own homes. They want to do with their property as they see fit, have a place to truly call "home", provide a sense of security, and have a place where they can raise their children under ideal conditions where a landlo…

Children pretty much remove control from your life one way or another. However, they do absorb the sum of who you are in many ways, and in that way they are an expression of self-determination as much as its remover. For example, I like to sing quite a bit, I lack talent so that ultimately doesn't impact my professional life in any way, however my kids adore my singing. They validate my self-expression in a way that would be difficult for me to get otherwise.

I do periodically feel a lack of agency from my kids and their needs basically controlling my life, but I also feel an immense sense of accomplishment for satisfying, or at least attempting to satisfy those needs.

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#642

Post by CameronNemo » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 5:33 AM UTC

bjl wrote: post #373

SwiftyBug wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

having willpower and time are two of the most dificult things in life.

Heartily disagree. If you have time to play video games and endlessly post on reddit, then you have time to get in shape and take a shower. Willpower's even easier barring mental illness (in which case they should see a doctor, not whine about women on the internet).

I don't think showering is the one that is considered hard. It is the "develop a compelling personality" and "make friendships with interesting people" items that are most challenging. IME "compelling personality" is difficult to define, different for each potential partner, and often has to do with humor. The challenging bit is that some aspect of your personality that you care about a lot (love of math, plants, or music) might not matter to someone else. And humor can just as easily be hurtful as it can heal. Some jokes just land terribly.

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#643

Post by armitron » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 5:49 AM UTC

nicoburns wrote: post #310

dogma1138 wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think that settling down with someone that isn’t sexually attracted to you enough is a recipe for a healthy relationship. On the plus side if you’re in your early 30’s and economically stable and well enough off for your area your get to experience life on easy mode. I got to experience that after my last brake up before I got fed up and went for something more stable and it was really an eye opening experien…

Isn't sexually attracted to you upon first meeting doesn't mean that they're not sexually attracted to you in the relationship.

Sexual attraction is multifaceted, but by far the strongest and most important/longest-living aspect regarding the strength of a relationship is the biological component which is for all intents and purposes instant and present from the very beginning. If that's absent, you're definitely stacking the deck against you in a major way. I am not saying an LTR can't work, but you'll be putting in substantially more energy, time and effort to make it happen.

It's the difference between playing a game in easy vs nightmare mode.

This is all based on empirical observations. I am 55 years old, I've had more than 100 sexual partners in my life and a lot of relationships, some of them lacking the initial biological/animalistic sexual attraction factor I described here. I've been married twice, now divorced and in a long-term relationship with my partner. I have two daughters in their 20s.

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#644

Post by whytaka » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 6:03 AM UTC

selimthegrim wrote: post #577

whytaka wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sorry, I don't really understand your question. Perhaps you could rephrase it.

Why isn't the first time you had good sex more memorable to you than the time you lost your virginity? (It is rare they are the same time)

Ah I see. Luckily for me, it was good the first time so I can't speak to your question from experience.

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#645

Post by dingaling » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 6:06 AM UTC

downerending wrote: post #608

cortesoft wrote: post #566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After dating lots of people, one of the major factors in what made me decide to build a life with my wife was that I could count on her to be a reliable partner. That is soooo huge when choosing someone you are going to build a family with. It is way more important than any sort of animal sexual attraction.

I guess so, but I definitely wouldn't tell her that you're not really highly sexually attracted to her.

Why not? After 12 years of marriage I told my wife that and it cleared the air. We both knew it but it remained unsaid for so long and had been having an adverse affect on the relationship.

Yes, it was a tough and emotional week. But things are better out in the open and we have started to rebuild the relationship on love, not lust.

She did ask if I was having affairs. But I honestly said that I'm finished with sex now, I've just no time or interest in playing the chasing games. There are more important things in life.

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#646

Post by whytaka » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 6:10 AM UTC

watwut wrote: post #516

whytaka wrote: post #482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would definitely say I had a much more toxic attitude towards others before. I recall back then fantasizing about violence, either self-inflicted or unto others. While I'm sure there may be many studies that illustrate the continued abusive behaviour of men who have romantic relationships, I ask myself whether it's possible to show how many men would've been otherwise angry and aggressive had they not experienced a…

Yes, there is continuity of abusive behavior in relationship. In general, close family members and dependent people gets to experience that most. Note that this is not exclusive to male abuse, female abuse exists too and is more likely to happen to dependents and family. If you see sex as only proof of being accepted (as opposed to friendships and other social contacts), then I can see how it eases anxiety. It does n…

I can't help but detect some cynicism in your response.

Who it was with mattered. Being desired mattered. Buying it would have felt empty for me.

> The worth given by woman when having sex is however only illusion.

This isn't the first time I've encountered this idea. I'm sure everyone is exposed to the idea from a very young age. As a teenager, I would've accepted it rationally but rejected it emotionally. Being told something like that would be as effective as telling a hormonal teenager to stop being so emotional.

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#647

Post by cmdshiftf4 » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 6:12 AM UTC

jeffreyrogers wrote: post #430

cmdshiftf4 wrote: post #282

This is one aspect of my belief that Western society, especially that in North America, is crumbling before our very eyes and yet with each piece that hits the ground, instead of seeing concern we're hearing "PROGRESS!". As part of a couple now considering bringing children into the world, the absolute shitshow that I predict the West to be constantly embroiled in 20 years from now when they would be adults is someth…

Shouldn't people like you be having more children? If society is really crumbling, we need more people who have the right ideas about how to rebuild it. I'm not being sarcastic by the way. I imagine we have similar concerns about Western civilization.

Absolutely. On the one hand, having a comparatively large family (3 kids) and raising them well would be one very strong thing one could look at on one's deathbed and be comforted by knowing you did your part to help.

On the other hand, there's something morally uneasy about bringing children into something you know to be broken. As we correctly recognize, children won't fix a damned relationship and bringing them into one can harm them long term. It sort of feels like that but on the macro scale.

All that being said, we are leaning on the side of having a large (as above) family, but it doesn't come with an uneasy feeling.

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#648

Post by Stupulous » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 6:12 AM UTC

bjourne wrote: post #616

wutbrodo wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not really how theory works; the claim isn't that this is the single and sole determinant of civil unrest. This Atlantic article[1] looks more broadly at the effect of the young male subpopulation's size on unrest, this[2] paper references the mitigating effect of family formation on individual crime rate, this[3] one both covers unrest due to low family formation (generally through the mechanism of uneven sex…

But you presented the theory as a causative link between family formation being unavailable for young men and civil unrest. It's a classic case of correlation is not causation. Yes, there have been societies where men couldn't form families that were violent (like the Wild west in the US) but that doesn't mean that that was the cause of it. Similarly, many on the left have long thought that porn viewing causes sexual…

Are the plethora of cases where cigarettes did not cause cancer compelling proof that they don't?

Perhaps these counterexamples are evidence of additional factors, in cancer or in unrest, but they do not prove that a causal relationship doesn't exist.

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#649

Post by antepodius » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 6:13 AM UTC

asdff wrote: post #470

geodel wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is quite reasonable approach that these men are taking. I'd think of myself in that category. With society going in direction where social norms are evolving faster than many have mental bandwidth to deal with, it would be wise to just save time, money and energy to acquire that fake attractiveness. May be men have also taken cue from pop song 'You are beautiful just the way you are...'

What social norms are really changing that are so very overwhelming? The only really changing social norm is wider acceptance of different lifestyles and people, and if it takes some people serious bandwidth to process the golden rule, maybe these people really should be sitting out on the outset of society for better or worse. It seems harsh, but I see a lot of people externalize all their personal issues on perceiv…

Equal respect? Social norms are a lot more complicated than that, man. You have to repeat all the right shibboleths, (subtly) honour the ingroup, and show appropriate hatred towards the outgroup.

E.g. if you're among roughly progressive upper-middle white people, your shibboleths are stuff like your comment, your ingroup that you're not allowed to overtly acknowledge exists but that you must still honour is progressive upper-middle class white people, and the outgroup you should show sufficient: A, hatred towards the rich B, disdain towards is lower-class white people.

Showing appropriate opprobum vers the outtribe might not be strictly speaking necessary, just highly recommended. Wouldn't want to be mistaken for them.

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#650

Post by zerr » Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 6:21 AM UTC

koonsolo wrote: post #549

bronco21016 wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d even argue it goes in the other direction to a degree. I’ve witnessed many relationships where the woman makes more money and it creates tension. Obviously, not in all cases but It does happen.

Indeed, and even if the woman does not care for it, the man might feel lesser of a man because of it.

On the other hand, if a man is happy in this situation, he's being called out as Gigolo :)