Earlier quoted context omitted.
Say you completely ignore scaling. The two things you simply cannot replicate at that scale are redundancy and operational resource. AWS has their entire operations team working at all hours of the day and night supporting their infrastructure. They also offer some of the most highly redundant services in the world. There is simply no way you could ever dream of replicating those service levels with such a small oper…
> AWS has their entire operations team working at all hours of the day and night supporting their infrastructure. They also offer some of the most highly redundant services in the world. And yet, a couple times a year perhaps, we have discussions right here on HN about the latest AWS outage that took down half the Internet.
Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products
641–650 of 727 posts
Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products
#642Earlier quoted context omitted.
You might wish that this was the case, but in the US, the anti-trust law doesn't work this way. The law doesn't prohibit monopoly by itself. Monopolization is only prohibited if it restrains trade, or if the monopoly position was improperly gained. If Amazon attains monopoly position through superior products, innovation, or business acumen, it is very much legal in the US[1]. I think it's hard to argue that Amazon u…
Obtaining a monopoly via legal means is irrelevant if there is then monopolization, the examples given in this thread of "product tying" via Amazon Prime, essential facilities denial via superseding with their own products, and predatory pricing via not having to pay platform fees are all restraining trade. Whether these could be sufficiently proved is a whole other matter.
If you don't trade on Amazon's platform, you're not affected by any of these. You might as well complain about Safeway's (or whatever grocery chain operates in your area) anti-competitive practices, because Safeway will also do product tying via membership card, rewards and coupons, deny you facilities to put your products on their shelves, and won't pay carrying fees for its own store brand products.
Sure, it might be much harder for you to compete with Amazon if you can't use its platform, but then the argument is that the Amazon is too competitive, not anti-competitive, and that is in fact legal (and a boon for customers).
Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products
#643About 10 years ago I met the head of IT for B&H cameras in NYC. Among many things, he was in charge of the hosting for their online store. After he complained about dealing with physical servers, I asked him if he had ever considered using AWS ec2 for the website, and he replied that his boss refused because he believed that Amazon would pull data on B&H products and use it to compete more effectively. I'm not sure t…
The one point of solace is that there's a lot of competition out there for web hosting.
Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products
#644Earlier quoted context omitted.
Throwaway account for obvious reasons. In the past, AWS has used the data from third party hosted services on AWS to build a similar service and in fact start poaching their customers. Source: I used to be at AWS and know the PM & his manager who built a service this way. I was hired on that team.
Cynical curiosity: did the services they poached from have such abysmal UX/DX or is that an Amazon touch?
Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products
#645Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is absolutely no veil between the hypervisor and the guest virtual machines. Not in the EBS either. If they say they won't read your data, better trust them. If you don't, stay away from their datacenters. EDIT: fix typo.
Which is why a company operating cloud computing should just do that and nothing else. (And a company producing phones should also just do that and not start competing on the app marked. etc.)
As an aside, Amazon competitors like Walmart typically require their suppliers to host data on a platform other than AWS if they want access.
Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products
#646You are transparent. I see plans within plans.
We are coming after you.
And if you on HN, reddit etc? understand this, either join or be fearful.
Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products
#647Earlier quoted context omitted.
Criminal conspiracies by corporate execs are not all uncommon in the history of business and presuming that you can't possibly run into one because you personally haven't is taking an unnecessary risk. One thing due diligence is supposed to look for is criminal behavior. This is not because they never find it.
Criminal conspiracies by corporate execs are not all uncommon in the history of business Actually, they are quite uncommon, which is why they make headlines when discovered. I'm not taking a side here, just pointing out a fallacy.
Boeing:
See 737 MAX, other 737 boondoggle like the vertical stabilizer reversal back in 94'ish.
Monsanto, hell, what chemical hasn't hid information they damn well shouldn't:
Dicamba, roundup.. Take your pick. The stellar behavior of this corporate citizen taints cements the stereotype of an entire industry.
https://thecounter.org/dicamba-trial-monsanto-basf-pesticide...
https://www.phillyvoice.com/new-york-times-dupont-hid-decade...
Special mention goes to a certain German pharma company who brought you Thalidomide:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gr%C3%BCnenthal_GmbH
The lovely folks at Insys:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/02/health/insys-trial-verdic...
Believe there was a fraudulent implant thing a bit ago... Where'd I put that?
https://www.desertsun.com/story/news/health/2014/07/09/south...
Someone beat me to Dieselgate.
Arthur Anderson LLP.
PG&E deliberately skimped on maintenance, leading to fires in California, and if I recall natural gas lines overpressuring in Massachusets?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts_gas_explosions
Excuse me, the natural gas one was Columbia Gas.
Big Tobacco...
Nestle I think getting caught using child labor in their supply chain at one point.
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development-professionals...
Oh what else can I think of off the top of my head? Uhhh...
That's all I can think of for right now. I mean we can hit the history books or case law to get a solid count I suppose, but to be frank, once a company hits a certain revenue point, it is pretty much guaranteed they've had to do something to get dirty/avoid getting outed as dirty.
So it really isn't that unusual. Throw in stuff that happened back before the rise of the Unions of the last century, and since their decline, and you also end up with so.e decent stories of workforce abuse. Though admittedly there's slant depending on who is telling it.
Like the Pinkertons as a matter of fact.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinkerton_%28detective_agency%...
Or the original incarnation of Equifax, who were tasked with vetting prospective executive promotees.
Just because it'sorganized doesn't mean it's doing anyone any favors.
Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products
#648So many comments about, "doesn't everyone know they do this?", and "everyone does this!" I say there should be an explicit difference between "running a platform", and "selling on a platform", and never should the two meet. By "platform" here, and in the context of selling stuff online or IRL, I mainly mean that the store should never compete with their suppliers ... it's madness and unethical. If everyone can get a…
Its a free market, you can do what you want as long as costumers like it. Valve makes its own games and the platform. There are other example where this is true.
Should SpaceX not be allowed to launch Starlink. Falcon 9 is a platform, and Starlink is selling the product that you get threw this platform. Maybe not a perfect example, but one could equally make a argument about that as well.
All of these things are pretty artificial opinion based market restrictions, and everybody want to create different rules based on different was to evaluate this question for every market business and so on.
So you would make totally different choices about what is a platform and what isn't. If my company has a product and then opens up the underlying API, is my product now illegal?
For me this is all nonsense, why not just have both the suppliers, consumers and everybody else involved make choices based on what they think is best. Why do you know better of how to define these terms and what evidence is there that when you force a separation it is better at 'raising all boats'. There is no evidence to prove that in the majority of cases.
In the example of Steam they lost many games because suppliers didn't want to deal with them. Microsoft SQL now runs on Linux because people didn't want to us Windows. In all of those cases, costumers and suppliers are perfectly capable at making those decisions for themselves and then the company has to make choice how adjust to this situation.
Why any of this is bad, is totally unclear to me.
Its easy to say 'see this one bad example' and the ignore a huge amount of efficiency gained by vertical integration. The idea that we have bureaucrats to have control over every single vertical integration decision by every company is pretty insane dream to me.
This reminds me of 'Indian Socialism' where you had to fill out a application for every market each company wanted to get into and the of course super smart regulator would then make sore that the 'correct' amount of companies were in each market. Of course as always there was tons of regulatory capture and corruption to say who got a permit and who didn't. Witch is basically the same pickle you want to get into, just with 100x more detailed determination about ever companies internal structure as well. A recipe for disaster if you ask me.
The idea of enlightned regulator who for each choice of each company on each level can figure if that decision is correct for 'the global population' is a total fantasy. Neither can they do it, nor would their intensives to do it actually be for the good of 'the global population'.
Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products
#649Earlier quoted context omitted.
Throwaway account for obvious reasons. In the past, AWS has used the data from third party hosted services on AWS to build a similar service and in fact start poaching their customers. Source: I used to be at AWS and know the PM & his manager who built a service this way. I was hired on that team.
Cynical curiosity: did the services they poached from have such abysmal UX/DX or is that an Amazon touch?
Re: Amazon scooped up data from its own sellers to launch competing products
#650Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think Shopify should experiment with a centralized market place where stores can opt in. If you opt in, your store items are listed in a central location searchable in at single point, just like Amazon. Your item listing in the central market place merely directs you to YOUR branded store, allowing you to check out, and see your other products. That solves a huge problem of visibility that Amazon has mastered.
The reason they don't do this is a legal one. As a platform, they are not liable for what their sellers sell (copyright/trademark/counterfeit), but as a marketplace they would have deeper liability. A central marketplace also gives brands the ability to search through all Shopify stores, basically giving them a search engine to find infringement. How do I know this? 10 years in ecommerce with a different ecomm platfo…