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Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

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Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#641

Post by sangd »

This looks to be a very good move to optimize and significantly improve Apple products' security and reliability.

I do not understand why we argue what is better between Mac, Windows and Linux. It all comes down to the scope of what we're using it for. All of these 3 OSes have complex parts and arguing which one is better is not a a good conversation to have. The market already says it all for what choices people are making. These 3 OSes feature development would always follow the market demand. They're usually not that far off for important features. And whether they choose to focus/optimize them is a business decision.

I have used all 3 and I like different parts of all 3. I currently use mostly my Macbook Pro, iPhone and sometimes iPad as they're very reliable and high quality made products. They often get my job done mostly without a hiccup. I would choose the product that get my work done best within the least amount of time so I could focus on other more important things. My wife, however, prefers her Windows laptop & android phone as she could do her work better and she prefers android because of its flexibility.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#642

Post by gradstudent »

bwat49 wrote: post #624
freehunter wrote: post #612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the problem with saying "this is better for computer scientists": It's the same argument every time someone says "the Macbook Pro is not a professional device". Not every computer scientist has the same needs. There are a lot of CS folks who will never need to recompile a kernel or even get into the OS internals. For those people, having to do that is a major downside to any computer. So the obvious choice is…

> and it's not going to work if I'm copying and pasting kernel code from Stack Overflow to get my trackpad to scroll the correct direction When was the last time you used a linux desktop, 2005? On any linux desktop I can think of (MATE, Gnome, KDE) this is a matter of going to Settings | Mouse & Touchpad | check or un-check the natural scrolling box as desired

I think this depends on the specific flavour of Linux. For instance, Linux + i3wm yields a desktop environment where everything -- including seemingly braindead functions like volume control -- needs to be configured by hand on a command line. Other combinations might be more extensively configured by default but even then it's not hard to find something broken.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#643

Post by nyrikki »

meddlepal wrote: post #603
tjr225 wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2 - docker works flawlessly on macos 4 - i cant think of a single application, outside of maybe xcode, a developer might need to sign into the app store for 6 - whatever reasons that youtuber might have for not using macbooks, i will never buy a non-mac notebook ever again. this 2013 13" mbp has been the best and most reliable computer I have ever had in 30 years and I bought it used! 7 - sure the apple brand is cool…

> docker works flawlessly on macos He said nothing about "fine". Docker on Mac is through a VM and thus not native. Containerization in MacOS is impossible without a VM.

Exactly, on linux you have the entire CPU and memory space to use, as it is just a mapped name space.

I will add that the usefulness of seeing the containers PIDS in ps and other tools is more useful than most mac/windows users realize.

xhyve died on the vine it appears, but did make things a bit better.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#644

Post by zitterbewegung »

blacklight wrote: post #560

I personally hate close fences with no rooms for customization, and many computer scientists are on the same wavelength. Windows is an awful choice for software development, a job that usually requires a lot of interaction with Unix servers. Microsoft's recent crush for Linux and open source can't fix many years of closed standards, closed protocols, and Embrace-Extend-Exterminate evil culture. And MacOS, even though…

If Linux had proper support for suspend on My MacBook Pro I would use it. The problem with Linux is their laptop support for drivers such as the touchpad and proper ACPi support . Windows and MacOS have this handled but Linux does not unless you buy dell or Lenovo. Also, macs have a lower chance of replacement since they have more reliable parts .

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#645

Post by phs318u »

namelost wrote: post #402
mediocrejoker wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The niche market of "software developer" is in an interesting position if you include developers who create the apps that Apple needs to sell phones. Clearly "iOS app developer" is only a subset of "software developer" but I think there is only so far down the "consumer tech toy" road they can go without doing longer term damage to their ecosystem

They could make a Linux distro, a "yellow box" for Linux. I know it sounds totally ridiculous, but if Apple really doesn't want to make computers for software engineers, it doesn't stop them making an OS for software engineers.

:-)

Apple did just this, twenty years ago.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MkLinux

http://www.mklinux.org

Interestingly, they claim to have incorporated some of the technology from MkLinux into OSX, according to this page:

https://developer.apple.com/library/content/documentation/Da...

Make of that what you will.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#646

Post by eosrei »

Myrmornis wrote: post #505
sreque wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard it said that the greatest minds of our generation are thinking about how to make people click ads. However, I feel like the greatest minds of our generation are spent trying to figure out how to enable people to build Linux software on OSX. Whether it is: * a convoluted process involving Vagrant, Docker, or both, because you depend on one or more pieces of software that don't run at all on OSX, including D…

I did maintain a Linux laptop (Ubuntu) for all my personal and development usage, from 2003-2011. Based on my experience at that time, it is entirely incorrect to claim that the experience with device drivers (wifi, bluetooth) and sleep/suspend/hibernate is better on Linux. Those things basically never worked right, battery experience was terrible, and many times during that era I lost a day's work because something…

Linux has come far in seven years. I haven't had issues with wifi or bluetooth for years on quality hardware (Thinkpad, Dell.) YMMV

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#647

Post by batuhanw »

bwat49 wrote: post #624
freehunter wrote: post #612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the problem with saying "this is better for computer scientists": It's the same argument every time someone says "the Macbook Pro is not a professional device". Not every computer scientist has the same needs. There are a lot of CS folks who will never need to recompile a kernel or even get into the OS internals. For those people, having to do that is a major downside to any computer. So the obvious choice is…

> and it's not going to work if I'm copying and pasting kernel code from Stack Overflow to get my trackpad to scroll the correct direction When was the last time you used a linux desktop, 2005? On any linux desktop I can think of (MATE, Gnome, KDE) this is a matter of going to Settings | Mouse & Touchpad | check or un-check the natural scrolling box as desired

It kind of works but not stable as mac’s touchpad. You need to spend a lot of time to make 4 finger, 5 finger, zoom, pinch work stable. Also there are endless weird bugs you need to find out why. Had crashing ubuntu, opensuse right after the install.

Traveling and working remote, battery power is very important. You cant shutdown or sleep your computer seamlessly. Its just simple thing. It should just work.

Yes you can customize it as you wish but I dont want to. I want to spend time for actual coding and having time for myself.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#648

Post by mr_toad »

bhouston wrote: post #223
Stranger43 wrote: post #213

Have anyone checked with adobe and autodesk if this essentially kills the professional mac workstation as a viable product going forward? I have no doubt they can make it fast and usable enough for the naive consumer living inside the bubble of what relatively inexpensive(consumer grade) app-store apps can do and that microsoft will release something pretending to be MS office for a new ARM macbook line, but photosho…

Adobe has a lot of stuff that works well on iOS. ARM has neon instructions for SIMD. I think they will be okay. Changing over from one SIMD architecture to another is not that hard. AutoCAD isn't ultra optimized for Mac anyhow, it will be okay. This transition may screw up or significantly slow down VMs of Intel-based OSes like Ubuntu.

Server versions of major Linux distributions already run on ARM. Gnome and KDE too, although I hear that there can be issues. Part of the problem with ARM support is the lack of hardware for Linux developers to test on. MacBooks with ARM would actually help this process.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#649

Post by ekun »

bjoli wrote: post #453
sreque wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a software developer, and I detest working on my mac laptop. At $lastjob I had a Linux desktop and it is, I believe, the most productive environment I have ever developed in. The job before, I had a windows desktop, and I prefer that to mac. You say you want to just "get things done expediently," but in my experience apple software is flat out inferior and OSX is the worst of the 3 major operating systems I have…

I have long said that Mac os X is only useful as a way to start Emacs, but since 10.10 I am not even sure about that. Of course it is a matter of taste. I get that. I still have to bite my tongue to not yell profanities whenever I hear anything about productivity and Mac OS. Most of the time I keep my mouth shut. Now I just wanted to tell you that you are not alone. I have to use Mac OS at work. To avoid frustration…

Nice thing on windows is I can open the command line type >bash and I've got vim, ssh, sftp, bash whatever immediately. I still don't use that because other telnet, x-window setups are better for me. I never found out how to be productive in OSX vs what I can do in Windows.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#650

Post by [deleted] »

freehunter wrote: post #628
bwat49 wrote: post #624

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and it's not going to work if I'm copying and pasting kernel code from Stack Overflow to get my trackpad to scroll the correct direction When was the last time you used a linux desktop, 2005? On any linux desktop I can think of (MATE, Gnome, KDE) this is a matter of going to Settings | Mouse & Touchpad | check or un-check the natural scrolling box as desired

Yeah that was not the point at all, but thanks for refuting it anyway.

[deleted]
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