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UK votes to leave EU

bbc.co.uk

641–650 of 1001 posts

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#641

> What culture do Germans, Greeks, Latvians, Bulgarians, Fins, and Spaniards share? The one that used to be called the Roman Empire, then Christendom, and is now called Western Civilisation. It is also arguably the greatest achievement of the human species.

How is it the greatest achievement? There are many other civilizations.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#642
post #95

It's amazing that such deep constitutional change will be achieved with such a slim majority. 48% of British people will be ejected out of the EU essentially against their will. The UK has always embraced first past the post voting, but it really shows here how it creates very discontinuous inflection points.

That's what a democracy is all about, isn't it? Isn't it insane how close the race between G.W. Bush and Al Gore was in 2000? Consider the consequences of that decision for a moment. And the voter turnout was only 51.2% in that election, not ~70%. Saying that in the end a small amount of voters make all the difference, that's true in so many cases... At least regarding the Brexit-vote no one can complain that there w…

> That's what a democracy is all about, isn't it?

I recently read a point which made a lot of sense to me: that regular, multi-party elections are much less winner-takes-all than referendums. Even if they aren't run under proportional systems, a government can be thrown out and replaced, its policies changed, so there's always a chance for a do-over, it's always worth waiting rather than throwing a fist. A referendum, while it technically can be re-run, tends to burn out the public's willingness to listen, while decisively fixing a choice that can no longer be changed. So it's much more divisive and traumatic.

So there's democracy and democracy, basically. And they aren't the same.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#643
post #468

A very sad day for everyone in Europe. The EU is not only about trade regulations, but about a continent who had a not very peaceful history finally growing together. The freedom of movement for European citizens was not only "convenient" but in fact an important civil right. When you live or have a business in one state of the US, you are bound to local regulations of course, but being part of the US granted you a l…

The US did not magic itself into existence as a united state. It began in common purpose with a shared, very strong, external enemy. It then assigned itself a shared dream of settling the content. And, crucially, it already had a shared cultural identity, shared language, and shared religion when it began. The EU does not have a common enemy to force it together. It does not have a shared language, or culture, or ide…

I can't believe Nigel Farage and a lot of pro Brexit campaigners have been calling it UK's "Independence day". Apart from being a very bad (purposeful?) analogy, it's seems to me pretty disrespectful to their own and to US history. I'm not from USA (or UK) but would love to hear how US and UK people feel about it?

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#644
post #566

If this is followed by a Trump win in the US, it will mark the biggest change in mature men's hair style of recent times.

I dont even know where to store all the popcorn i will need in the next weeks and years. I am so excited that finally something happens again, especially as both things may lead to chaos and therefore real changes.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#645
post #468

A very sad day for everyone in Europe. The EU is not only about trade regulations, but about a continent who had a not very peaceful history finally growing together. The freedom of movement for European citizens was not only "convenient" but in fact an important civil right. When you live or have a business in one state of the US, you are bound to local regulations of course, but being part of the US granted you a l…

> I would guess no small part of them will try to move to the remaining EU states. You seem to underestimate the language barrier. I once talked to a few British young people about which country they would like to move to and I recall they mentioned New Zealand and the US, none of them mentioned any country in continental Europe and when I asked why I got confirmation that language issues matter. That's one reason am…

Meanwhile everywhere else they learn English and most (with the exception of the French) are pretty good at it

But yeah, if they can't be bothered to learn another language...

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#646
post #354

Is modifying the free movement of people provision a workable compromise? The Swiss recently also voted to limit EU immigration. Sweden, Denmark, and France recently had temporary border controls to deal with refugees. Maybe there should be stronger adjustment mechanisms so people aren't 100% free to move en masse for now, yet still have the long term goal of achieving the freedom of movement ideal.

You're throwing unrelated things together. - The Swiss move is one-sided, it's not yet implemented. There's a good chance their EU treaties get cancelled when they implement it. - The border controls some countries implemented are a suspension of certain Schenfen rules. They do not affect the free movement of people within the EU. Also these Schengen rules have never applied to the UK.

They're related by fear. Fear of being swamped by immigrants. Fear of terrorists. Fear of losing their country's identity. The UK, like Switzerland, adopted freedom of movement provisions to access the common market despite the UK not being in Schengen. The Swiss suspended negotiations on their new controls specifically to see the outcome of the UK referendum.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#647
post #561
post #468

A very sad day for everyone in Europe. The EU is not only about trade regulations, but about a continent who had a not very peaceful history finally growing together. The freedom of movement for European citizens was not only "convenient" but in fact an important civil right. When you live or have a business in one state of the US, you are bound to local regulations of course, but being part of the US granted you a l…

* EU has got to deliver * It needs to show that it can provide solutions for the euro financial crisis and the refugee crisis. Solutions that are sound, long term and have popular backing. It has shown that it cannot. And thus we europeans are better of with a smaller, simpler european cooperation of independent nation states. At least this should be the very real threat the EU politicians should operate under. We ne…

> EU has got to deliver

I think this is the most important misconception GB always had about the EU. It's a union which means, having a well tempered partnership should be the goal - not cherry-picking like the UK often did.

Or, to resemble a famous quote: Ask not, what the EU can do for you - ask what you can do for the EU!

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#648

Guess I'll have to move my Git hosting elsewhere then. That's too bad, I was quite fond of Codebase.

i don't get this ether. Isn't hosting outside of the EU generally always a privacy benefit?

Edit:// I clearly did exclude the US here.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#649

It could prove to be a bad, really bad decision for the UK. It could probably be a great gift to those who despise the UK in the EU. The british overestimate the power of their economy at this moment i believe. - They had the unique privilege of a strong, international financial sector within the EU, while simultaneously having their own monetary policy. This attracted foreign capital, and this capital will feel less…

"Unfortunately, whatever the motives, in democracies decisions are respected."

Do you actually lament the fact that democracies respect the choice of their peoples?

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#650

> What culture do Germans, Greeks, Latvians, Bulgarians, Fins, and Spaniards share? The one that used to be called the Roman Empire, then Christendom, and is now called Western Civilisation. It is also arguably the greatest achievement of the human species.

Umm, Scandinavians were never a part of it, the fact that Christianity has 3 major splits and the history of it proves how divided they were/are. And that's not even counting the bordering influences of Muslims like Ottomans/Moors. Also there's the ex-communist countries for a more recent cultural split.

Christianity is the foundation of the common european identity. Even today, its being used to contrast "us" against "them" (muslim immigrants).
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