Because it needs to be said • Hacker News Board

Re: Because it needs to be said

#631

Post by roguecoder » Sun, Oct 20, 2013, 3:04 AM UTC

Confusion wrote: post #118

I think there's a deeper cultural problem here: that the behavior of Joe had that much of an impact on Justine's life in the first place. There are women that would experience the same thing, but would not retreat into themselves in this extreme way. There are even women that would shrug it off. However, the response of Justine matches ancient societal expectations: if a woman has been violated, she loses all value.…

Some, wrong, people say "she" (not always a woman, mind you) had her life shattered. Other people talk about the potential harm while balancing it against resilience and community support in the face of unconscionable violence, without diminishing nor further victimizing the survivor.

It not okay to tell rape survivors that they are weak or wrong for having experienced their assault, their great betrayal in public as a negative and traumatic event. Instead, we need to blame rapists, over and over again, and dismantle rape myths, and offer survivors the support they ask for, not the support you decide they need.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#632

Post by roguecoder » Sun, Oct 20, 2013, 3:05 AM UTC

brazzy wrote: post #269

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comes dangerously close to victim-blaming. Let me tell you that what Justine is feeling is absolutely not some social construct built exclusively on archaic misogyny. I have known more than one gay man who was raped and felt exactly the same way. You might consider that at least some of the women who appear to deal better with being assaulted are actually just putting on a brave front to avoid being pitied and c…

I think it would be best to de-emphasize the question of blame altogether and have an unprejudiced discussion about how such incidents can be prevented in the future (and great kudos to Justine for trying just that). The terrifying thing about this is that in the area of sexuality the difference between an exciting, enjoyable experience and a terrifying, traumatizing one can be entirely in the mind of one party and n…

If the other party didn't bother to ask or pay attention, they shouldn't be having sex. It's like driving with your eyes closed: when you hit someone, the blame is entirely on you.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#633

Post by pjackson » Mon, Oct 21, 2013, 1:54 PM UTC

steveklabnik wrote: post #571

general_failure wrote: post #528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like people like you are easily convinced to do anything. And promptly blame others when bad things happen. Best of luck.

Like most things in life, the answer is much more complex than that. I decided that having experiences was a better life choice than teetoataling. I don't blame anyone for my decision to drink, it was a conscious choice on my part.

My straightedge tattoo is on the back of my left hand. Like many, I gave it up later in life. No shame in that, so long as you can avoid assaulting subordinates or killing people with your car.

In all seriousness, there were SO MANY bad decisions in the original story. They just happen to all belong to Joe. I have no doubt he'd have made different choices while sober. But it's not the fault of the "alcohol culture" or "tech", it's Joe's.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#634

Post by pjackson » Mon, Oct 21, 2013, 1:54 PM UTC

steveklabnik wrote: post #571

general_failure wrote: post #528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like people like you are easily convinced to do anything. And promptly blame others when bad things happen. Best of luck.

Like most things in life, the answer is much more complex than that. I decided that having experiences was a better life choice than teetoataling. I don't blame anyone for my decision to drink, it was a conscious choice on my part.

My straightedge tattoo is on the back of my left hand. Like many, I gave it up later in life. No shame in that, so long as you can avoid assaulting subordinates or killing people with your car.

In all seriousness, there were SO MANY bad decisions in the original story. They just happen to all belong to Joe. I have no doubt he'd have made different choices while sober. But it's not the fault of the "alcohol culture" or "tech", it's Joe's.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#635

Post by volvelle » Mon, Oct 21, 2013, 4:55 PM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #630

volvelle wrote: post #629

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EDIT: Having let the furore subside a little, and after reading some more of the numerous comments and articles, "lying/misleading" is the wrong choice of words. Although I do not buy that the accusers DUI and destructive behaviour are solely caused by this incident, I do not think the author is malicious in their intent. Extremely sexualised behaviour led to the alleged assaulter going too far. He lost his job as a…

> HR didn't file a police report, and neither did the alleged victim. No-one else did either. That's a bizarre definition of a criminal offence. Many people do not contact law enforcement after sexual assault. This is for a variety of reasons including shame, stigma, embarrassment, fear of the forensic procedures, fear of the criminal justice and trial procedures, etc etc.

It's not a definition of a criminal offence, and nowhere did I imply that. It's an observation that numerous people witnessed an event or were made aware of it, yet not one of them contacted the police. The employers response (http://www.neo.com/2013/10/14/a-note-to-the-community-about-...), made no reference to a crime.

The closest law to not reporting a crime is Misprison of Felony (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/4), although that would require management/HR knew a crime had been committed, and then concealed it. It would be suicide for EdgeCase/Neo to know a sexual assault had occurred and not report the alleged assaulter. It would be socially limiting for the immediate sober witnesses too (the bar staff, any CCTV of the area in question), and those whose judgement was impaired by alcohol.

No-one commenting was there, so this is all conjecture. If a crime was committed and no-one reported it, now is the time to do so. The full force of the law needs to be applied. I do not buy that someone willing to talk about this publicly online would not want to go through reporting this because of shame. If a crime has been committed, and they have the evidence, why not press charges?