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I'm starting a social club to solve the male loneliness epidemic

wave3.social

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Re: I'm starting a social club to solve the male loneliness epidemic

#631

Post by tropdrop »

steveBK123 wrote: post #628
tropdrop wrote: post #620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Backing up a sister comment on this thread: I've lived in SF and Chicago, both also as walkable as it gets for the US, and in both had relationships as a "regular," whether at a corner store, cafe, or the grocer. I remember our Albanian corner store guy in particular, who would comment on me gaining or losing weight. Our neighborhoods felt like a small town where we all knew each other (including the homeless!). I li…

Brooklyn the same as Manhattan though. I think I'm just pointing out the urbanist utopia walkable American city NYC kind of already fails the claim.

But I'm pointing out that just because NYC fails the claim does not mean that the claim is wrong.

I think there's a goldilocks zone of walkable, at least for the purposes of this "urbanist-I-know-everyone-utopia" feeling – you could have perfectly walkable places that aren't dense enough (people wise), so they won't work. I'm thinking of Gorham's Bluff, Alabama, which is an attempted New Urbanist project. Or, you could have Manhattan, which is also walkable but frankly mind-boggling in its density.

No offense to New York. I sometimes find myself in wordless awe of its sheer power.

Re: I'm starting a social club to solve the male loneliness epidemic

#632

Post by jajko »

thfuran wrote: post #459
jajko wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Women tend to behave very differently in all-female group compared to when even a single man is present. And if that man is charismatic or handsome its completely different dynamics and resulting behavior again. Never thought about it myself but one female friend mentioned this once (how toxic their work environment becomes when there is no man), so started noticing it around. As a married man I can understand these…

You're more open and honest with any man than with your wife?

In some topics yes (not just any man, male close friends), but not in some others.

All in all, I am most open to her from whole mankind, but thats also due to the fact she is not same as typical women are in these aspects. It took me some time (and painful breakups with other women) to realize who I am, what and whom I want next to me and then find her.

Still, some topics are simply not built for women, and thats fine, some are not built for men.

Is it really so hard to understand this?

Re: I'm starting a social club to solve the male loneliness epidemic

#633

Post by dragonwriter »

jl6 wrote: post #253
subscribed wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, but why if they're having a functional clubs already? I feel like men only spaces in the UK are frowned upon (see Garrick club narration). No matter the reason, the only way single sex spaces work here is women only.

In UK law, it is generally considered sex discrimination to exclude someone on the basis of their sex, unless that exclusion is a “proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim”. It’s fairly well understood that women have sex-based needs that justify this aim, but very rarely recognized that men might have such needs too. Maybe this is one of them. The fear will always be that male-only spaces will become center…

> In UK law, it is generally considered sex discrimination to exclude someone on the basis of their sex

Whether or not the law prohibits or permits such discrimination, differential treatment (definitely including outright exclusion) on the basis of sex is, obviously sex discrimination, that’s just the meaning of the words.

Re: I'm starting a social club to solve the male loneliness epidemic

#634

Post by 1659447091 »

lupusreal wrote: post #492
craftkiller wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those two scouts programs aren't even remotely comparable, both in substance and prestige. Many girl scout troops barely did any camping/outdoor activity, whereas boys got to earn the prestige of "eagle scout" and go on various outdoor adventures (multi-day treks through the mountains, building igloos and camping inside them, camping on an island only accessible by a canoe, etc). It was a tragedy that girls didn't ha…

Whether a boyscout group sits around and does lame crafts or goes into the woods to start fires and hit each other with sticks is entirely down to the leadership (boys and adults) in that troop. So to is it with girlscouts. There is nothing intrinsic about boyscouts that makes it more exciting, except that it was lead by guys.

> There is nothing intrinsic about boyscouts that makes it more exciting

The chance to obtain Eagle Scout status is itself more exciting. It difficult to deny that it is one of the best leadership programs for children available. The girl scout equivalent is not even close to producing the leaders the Eagle Scouts do. They also have their own network for eagle scouts to connect. It can be an opportunity to get into a Good ‘ol Boys club (future business & money connections) before moving out of their parent’s house.

If a male or female wants to learn more about extracting money from family/shoppers by selling cases of cookies, or learn about female social empowerment and financial skill, instead of learning leadership through self reliance/accountability skills mixed with teamwork, then why not let them choose the programs they want? -- but they are different. Their Gold Award is nothing like earning Eagle Scout status.

Re: I'm starting a social club to solve the male loneliness epidemic

#635

Post by dragonwriter »

parliament32 wrote: post #560
jl6 wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In UK law, it is generally considered sex discrimination to exclude someone on the basis of their sex, unless that exclusion is a “proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim”. It’s fairly well understood that women have sex-based needs that justify this aim, but very rarely recognized that men might have such needs too. Maybe this is one of them. The fear will always be that male-only spaces will become center…

>it is generally considered sex discrimination to exclude someone on the basis of their sex So are women-only gyms not a thing in the UK then? Here in NA they're everywhere, we even have a women-only version of the YMCA (YWCA).

> Here in NA they're everywhere, we even have a women-only version of the YMCA (YWCA).

Despite the names, neither the YWCA or YMCA as broad organizations strictly restrict membership by gender (or religion, for that matter.) My understanding with YWCA specifically is that inclusiveness on gender varies considerably by individual local association.

Re: I'm starting a social club to solve the male loneliness epidemic

#636

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

mrguyorama wrote: post #587
Retric wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Country club’s are really a subset of this kind of thing and tend to have an overly wide membership to the point where you’re unlikely to know every member. The VFW is another modern take that’s got a very different vibe. Similarly historically it wasn’t just elitist hangouts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_men's_club

Notably, VFWs are struggling because the Vietnam vets are not very welcoming to the War on Terror vets. No women to blame there. What is the cause of the male loneliness epidemic then?

The fact that anybody would blame women for the supposed male loneliness epidemic is just wild to me.

Re: I'm starting a social club to solve the male loneliness epidemic

#637

Post by blargey »

meheleventyone wrote: post #627
potato3732842 wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely you see the irony in advocating for "just man up and comply"? Imagine how this comment would come across if applied along any other demographic axis.

I can't imagine many other demographics saying they need a safe space to be offensive to the other axis.

Many men and women socialize differently in mono-gender groups, for a wide variety of reasons, and reducing that to “being offensive to the other axis” is…well, reductive flamebait.

Re: I'm starting a social club to solve the male loneliness epidemic

#638

Post by [deleted] »

lavelganzu wrote: post #614
keiferski wrote: post #173

This idea appears every once in awhile, as it’s obviously a major issue in modern life. The interesting thing though is how the solution is always location-agnostic. By that I mean it’s never really about a specific cafe or restaurant or soccer field, it’s always an app or service that organizes people to show up in various places. I bring this up because if you look at places that had lively social activities a few…

Isn't this merely a technological change? "A few decades or a century ago", being location-specific was the only possible option for a social club. Now there are more options; location-specific options still exist, and location-agnostic options exist also. You can totally pick a convenient cafe or pub and start hanging out there & inviting your existing friends. In time you'll start to recognize the other regulars, a…

[deleted]

Re: I'm starting a social club to solve the male loneliness epidemic

#639

Post by tanseydavid »

meheleventyone wrote: post #626
_DeadFred_ wrote: post #619

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the response they are receiving when they 'advocate for the better of their demographic (and the type of response that is turning them sour/disillusioned) is: "Let's say everything you said was true" - iteria (needlessly implying it's a lie/not happening) "someone is providing an easy scapegoat for their own problems" - tayo42 (implying what they are experience/feeling isn't real/valid. This takes some tempor…

I can have a lot of empathy for someone who had explicit promises broken but apart from this sounding like a completely made up story it has no bearing on his skin color or sex. People are taken advantage of all the time and promises, even contracts are broken all the time. Your 'son' has taken the route of victimization rather than taking the high road. Getting screwed over is one thing, turning that in to bigotry i…

You first say "sounds like a made up story" and then you go on to assert that "it has no bearing on his skin color or sex"

Where are you even coming from with that?

The Op said directly "Once it was all successfully running the promise was broken and he was passed up because he was a white male (this was explicitly the reason"

Re: I'm starting a social club to solve the male loneliness epidemic

#640

Post by _DeadFred_ »

meheleventyone wrote: post #626
_DeadFred_ wrote: post #619

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the response they are receiving when they 'advocate for the better of their demographic (and the type of response that is turning them sour/disillusioned) is: "Let's say everything you said was true" - iteria (needlessly implying it's a lie/not happening) "someone is providing an easy scapegoat for their own problems" - tayo42 (implying what they are experience/feeling isn't real/valid. This takes some tempor…

I can have a lot of empathy for someone who had explicit promises broken but apart from this sounding like a completely made up story it has no bearing on his skin color or sex. People are taken advantage of all the time and promises, even contracts are broken all the time. Your 'son' has taken the route of victimization rather than taking the high road. Getting screwed over is one thing, turning that in to bigotry i…

Wow, glad you can tell I'm a liar based on absolutely nothing.

People can have down/shitty bits without just throwing them away/writing them off as irredeemable. Especially when they are frustrated over a specific event. Frustration that normally we try and help them leave behind. But for some reason in this situation 1. It's not true/didn't happen and 2. My son is trash for caring about it. I'm not around this stuff much, I don't do social media, I don't watch TV, and I live remote, but I'm getting a better sense of how my son went such the wrong direction over this.

Nowhere did I justify anything. I complained I want my son back and I refuse to write him off. Maybe check your lack of compassion, quickness to judge, willingness to write people off, and reading comprehension.

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