Live data from Hacker News

Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

fastcompany.com

631–640 of 954 posts

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#631
post #553
post #552

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The german driving culture is largely responsible for the lack of spectacular fatalities on the autobahn. In general, German culture has more respect for the “correct” way to do things, cars tend to be better maintained, and there is a much higher level of driver education going on. Comparatively, American drivers are a bunch of filthy savages. (I say that as an American driver, currently driving in a country where t…

Then instead of doing all of these increasingly draconian measures, perhaps we should try to copy the Germans. The interstate highway system itself was a copy of the German autobahn system. We should have copied it in all of its aspects. It is never too late to do this.

It does seem reasonable to find out what works in other countries and pursue the most effective and freedom-preserving approaches.

However, in the interim I'd support draconian measures (e.g. cameras, speed limiters, more effective consequences) until Americans demonstrate empirically that they are capable of operating dangerous equipment with some degree of competence.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#632
post #590
post #584

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure how incarcerating people who are guilty of a crime is unconscionable but monitoring everyone all the time and eliminating the ability to move from Point A to Point B privately is totally fine and no problem whatsoever.

> monitoring everyone all the time and eliminating the ability to move from Point A to Point B privately is totally fine and no problem whatsoever. Is that what the bill proposes? everyone's vehicle is now monitored all the time?

It's a much bigger leap to go from "punish people for speeding" to "physically prevent their car from going past a certain speed" than it is to go from "prevent this car from going past a certain speed" to "prevent all cars from going past a certain speed."

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#633

I have never understood the chronic war on travel velocity. Its like the war on drugs, but far more pointless. Speed is just one of many factors, and perhaps the least significant, in the frequency and probability of traffic accidents. Speed is absolutely a factor in the severity of an accident, but not the probability of one after accounting for all other variables. For example, if you leave sufficient distance betw…

Keeping sufficient distance doesn’t account for other lanes, where people could be entering or exiting your lane. Keeping all cars moving within 20-30 mph of each other make everything else more predictable. Saying that speed is not related to probability is just false. You can mitigate risks at higher speeds to a point, but higher speed is more risky just by the fact of human reaction times and that roads are not a simplistic system where the only factor is distance to the car directly in front of you.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#634
post #632
post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> monitoring everyone all the time and eliminating the ability to move from Point A to Point B privately is totally fine and no problem whatsoever. Is that what the bill proposes? everyone's vehicle is now monitored all the time?

It's a much bigger leap to go from "punish people for speeding" to "physically prevent their car from going past a certain speed" than it is to go from "prevent this car from going past a certain speed" to "prevent all cars from going past a certain speed."

your slippery slope argument is not very convincing. What do you suggest be done (that isn't already) about people who regularly speed, putting themselves and those around them in danger?

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#635
post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like 75% of people with a suspended license need to spend some time out in jail where they can ponder their life choices.

Someone who's jailed for driving on a suspended license because it's the only way they can get to their job probably isn't going to discontinue that behavior upon their release. I don't want my tax dollars being spent on a punishment that's just going to exacerbate the problem, especially when the crime isn't particularly odious in the first place (whatever they did to get their license suspended probably was, but on…

This is wishful thinking, the people I know who drive on suspended licenses also don't have jobs and refuse to work. The vast majority of people with suspended licenses are not otherwise productive members of society. The kind of antisocial behavior that gets your license suspended doesn't magically stop when you stop driving. These are, by in large, just bad people.

Many states also have special use permits for the case of needing to drive to work.

Also, everyone I personally know who drives with suspended licenses has the ability to get 99% of places they need to go by bus. Like we all did before we were old enough to drive. They just don't want to have to wait for a bus or walk a block or two, so they don't.

PS- I wish I didn't know these waste of space people, I don't get to choose my family. I would choose different people.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#636

Repeat offenders should not be allowed to drive. In the UK we have 12 points, and lose them for various offences. You get a fine, usually with the alternative of a course the first time. Speed again within 12 months and you get a fine and a minimum of three points (more if you are well above the limit). Speed again within four years and you will lose more points, and AFAIK pretty much guaranteed to be more than the m…

This is a rare case I support civil asset forfeiture: sue the car (in addition to criminal proceedings). Impound the car until fines are paid - which go into uninsured motorist funds - or else sell the car at auction and do the same. Will other parties' vehicles get impounded? Yes and that sucks. But either don't lend them your car, or else let the people closest to the offender pay the consequences more often than the current situation where random people in traffic pay financially or with life and limb for reckless drivers.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#637
post #521
post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are assault weapons so difficult to own in Europe? They make them in the US and you can own them there. As to your question - I’d like to refer you to physics. 2000 pounds of metal moving at any speed can kill pedestrians easily. More speed means more energy. Increasing speed limits consumes more fuel, wears roads more, pollutes more tire and brake dust, and of course kills more. We should not make things more co…

There are typically no pedestrians on highways. Being a pedestrian on a high way is hazardous no matter what the speed limit is for any realistic speed limit. If the cars move faster, they will get off the road faster. This means fewer vehicles on the road and the distances between the vehicles will increase. It is a linear effect if you adapt a flow equation to vehicles. Here is the equation off the top of my head:…

Traffic flow theory looks tidy on a whiteboard, but real roads don’t follow V D L arithmetic. Drivers open their following gaps faster than speed rises, so capacity peaks around 55 mph at roughly 2 000 veh/h/ln. Push limits higher and flow falls while crash energy soars. Because kinetic energy scales with the square of velocity (½ mv²), a 20 mph jump doesn’t give you 33 % more punch, it delivers nearly 80 % more. NHTSA data put it bluntly: fatal-injury odds about double for every 10 mph over 50 mph [1]. That’s an exponential climb in destructiveness, not a linear trade-off.

Higher limits also leak onto the streets that feed the ramps. The AAA Foundation’s 2024 before-and-after work showed a lasting uptick in operating speeds and speed-related crashes on arterials within a mile of interchanges after states boosted freeway limits [2]. Pedestrians and cyclists never set foot on the interstate yet bear some of the fallout.

Saying my analogy shuts down rational thought misreads what the analogy is doing. It's not a substitute for data but a framing device. I'm highlighting that different technologies share a core governance problem. When a private activity's danger rises faster than its utility, society uses regulation to keep expected harm below an acceptable threshold. This invites more rational analysis, not less.

If empirical data showed that 85mph highways or un-regulated assault rifles actually reduced third party harm, the analogy wouldn't block that conclusion, but instead lead to different regulatory settings. Your dismissal flips the burden of proof, hand-waving away the external-risk problem instead of engaging the numbers.

The gun analogy is serviceable once you zoom out from mechanics to externalities. An AR-15 and an 85 mph interstate both offer private utility but impose public risk that scales steeply—ballistic energy for one, kinetic energy for the other. Society uses licensing, background checks, or posted limits to push that expected harm below a tolerable threshold. Arguing that faster roads are safer because “cars clear out quicker” is like saying bump-stocks make rifles safer because the shooter finishes the magazine sooner: it flips the risk calculus on its head.

Think of operating a consumer-grade drone near people on the ground.

Private benefit: You get great aerial photos and save time compared with climbing a ladder or renting a lift.

External risk: If the drone falls from 100 ft it can hit a bystander with far more kinetic energy than if it falls from 20 ft (energy ∝ height, so the risk climbs steeply as you fly higher or faster or fly over people).

Regulatory levers: Aviation authorities cap altitude, require line-of-sight operation, limit flights over crowds, mandate geofencing near airports, and sometimes ask pilots to pass a basic safety test.

[1] https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/think.pdf

[2] AAA Foundation for Traffic Safety, “Uncovering the Spillover Effect from Posted Speed Limit Changes” (2024). https://aaafoundation.org/uncovering-the-spillover-effect-fr...

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#638

This has as much to do with chronic speeding as bans on encryption have to do with terrorism. It is nothing more than a foot in the door for massive police surveillance of all motor vehicles. Virginia famously cares more about police than the rights of its citizens so it isn't a surprise the weapons of the future police state are being born there.

People who regularly endanger the lives of others SHOULD be tracked. Want to live freely? Then don't be an asshole.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#639
post #21

Even a license suspension doesn’t necessarily change behavior: A federally funded study found that 75% of people with suspended licenses continued to drive. I know part of this is related to sociopathic behavior, but the bigger part of it is probably that we really need better public transit and should design walkable cities instead of cities based around cars. People still have to get to work, to the doctor, pick up…

True, but my understanding is that you can get an exception for driving to work and those other kinds of things.

I hope my point was clear. We shouldn't let dangerous drivers back on the road because it would otherwise be inconvenient for them.

Designing walkable cities has benefits beyond the obvious, including keeping criminals off the streets.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#640
post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Explain how the German autobahn has fewer collisions than US high ways with lower than 85th percentile speed limits if the lower speed limits are such an advantage. Actual data does not support the idea of low speed limits. They are only in place as an attempt to reduce fleet fuel consumption, and hurt safety by causing big differences in vehicle speeds.

Germany (and many parts of the EU) have: - _way_ higher requirements for "safe normal care usage skill" then the US - way higher care safety requirements (as in what cars are allowed to be on the street) - a different driving rules especially wrt. how they affect traffic on highways which do allow faster driving at the cost of putting higher requirements on people understanding and keeping with the rules - also laws…

You make a number of assertions, but you omit any concrete examples.

> And it's also quite unclear what you mean with "low speeding limit" and "big difference in vehicle speeds", especially given that lower speeding limits in general limit how big the difference in vehicle speed can be (assuming it's reasonably enforced and as such people somewhat kinda keep to the rules, but if not it's an enforcement problem, not a speed limit problem).

Very few people actually drive according to posted speed limits. They instead drive at a natural speed for the road and conditions. Those that do drive according to posted speed limits when the speed limits are set below the 85th percentile will find that driving at the speed limits is hazardous. This is why in countries with sane traffic laws, the speed limits are set to the 85th percentile and you get an illusion that people are obeying it. Differences in speeds tend to be small when the speed limits are set to the 85th percentile.

In the U.S., speed limits were lowered in a misguided attempt to conserve fuel following the 1973 oil crisis. This never conserved fuel since nobody listened to the new limits and it has made driving at posted speed limit hazardous ever since then.

> In addition there are quite a lot of studies about speeding limits and safety and they are very clear in the conclusion that speeding is one of the more common sources of deadly car accidents.

Having the distance between a vehicle and anything else reach 0 is necessary for there to be a collision. Get the cars off the road faster and the distance between vehicles will naturally increase. Larger distances between vehicles inhibits collisions. Thus, while collisions might be worse at higher speeds, you are not going to have as many of them. Germany’s autobahn has no speed limits and while collisions happen, they are relatively rare. Furthermore, 0 collisions is an unattainable goal. I believe the maxim is that if you make something idiot proof, the world will make a better idiot.

Post reply on HN