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Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

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Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#161

Post by brailsafe »

AyyEye wrote: post #140
bradleybuda wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which gives you a really strong incentive to not put other people’s lives at risk by driving recklessly.

This makes the assumptions that: A: The ticket was valid in the first place B: The Speeding was reckless I have a friend who got an entirely fabricated ticket claiming he was doing 80+ going uphill on an on-ramp in an early 90s toyota corolla with four people and four desktops + a couple of CRTs. We weren't going faster than ~35. Ticket said it was radar verified but he was sitting on his hood eating a sandwich. Othe…

While I'd accept that there are tight situations on remote highways similar to the one you described with the semi and tailgater, I also relish in those moments where I do just slow down and let the tailgater be pissed, sometimes they do get the ticket, and my conservative speeding gets vindicated.

Worth noting in this case that this bill does not redefine reckless driving, and is in fact dependent on a reckless driving charge and having been going over 100mph.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#162

Post by Teever »

astura wrote: post #133
knowitnone wrote: post #96

while this is not a bad idea, why not prevent them from driving at all and massive punishments

TFA says 75% of people with suspended licenses drive anyways.

Sounds like 75% of people with a suspended license need to spend some time out in jail where they can ponder their life choices.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#163

Post by fallingknife »

mjevans wrote: post #116
vkou wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A clear outlier case. Everyone speeds a little when they think it's safe, but some people speed excessively . This is about making a remedy available to judges, as an alternative to other, less effective, or more draconic (or both less effective and more draconic), forms of punishment. And judges deal with outlier cases every single day . They job is to look at and weigh all the special cases and considerations, pr…

At least in WA State there's not-reckless speeding, which is something like 1-14 mph over the posted limit (I argue it should be more like a _percent_ E.G. going 40 mph in a 25 is WAY worse than going 75 on a 60 mph freeway). Then there's 'reckless endangerment' tier which is +15 over the limit. The example of that guy going 100 in a 40 is beyond even that. It's SO far outside of the range of permissible I don't even…

The problem is that the speed limit itself has nothing to do with safety. To take your example of Seattle, there are 4 lane main roads with a 25 mph speed limit that in any other city would be 35 to 45. And everybody drives 40-45 on the anyway.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#164

Post by analog31 »

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote: post #129
ufmace wrote: post #50

The technical aspects of this seem concerning. I'm wondering exactly who has the authority to set a car to this mode and how the mechanism of doing so works. What happens if you sell the car or let somebody else borrow it? Or when you get another car, or rent one? What are the failure modes of it, like if the GPS glitches a little and decides you're on a feeder or surface road when you're actually on a freeway? I thi…

I recall hearing about Japan putting speed limiters in all cars and using GPS to determine the road and therefore speed limit to set the limiter dynamically in vehicles. (Perhaps some details are wrong or confabulated; regardless, it’s a neat idea.) I’m in favor of such a system in theory; I’d be concerned about privacy issues but there’s no reason for such a system to require driver identification anyway.

My family rented a car in England last summer, and this was an optional feature of the car. I didn't want to try it out on my first time driving on the left, so I didn't turn it on. Moreover, the speed limits on the motorways were changing in real time. I observed very little speeding -- almost none.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#165

Post by owenversteeg »

827a wrote: post #148

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin

I agree. What's next? Controlling where, and when we can drive? The groups lobbying for this bill already say that they want mandatory, automatic, remotely-controllable speed restrictions on everyone's car - they will publicly tell you as much - from there, any further erosion of our liberties is just a software update away.

Do you really think that a government, in the height of an emergency, that can restrict where and when you can drive with just a simple OTA update, would resist that temptation?

And to the other commenter who was saying that Franklin didn't envision modern dangers like the automobile: life was far, far more dangerous in his time than ours. The 1/3 of annual traffic deaths caused by speeding - twelve thousand in a country of 340M - works out to the equivalent of thirty five deaths across the entire thirteen colonies in Franklin's middle age, not even a drop in the bucket of the many lives paid for other liberties at that time.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#166

Post by AyyEye »

fallingknife wrote: post #156
AyyEye wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This makes the assumptions that: A: The ticket was valid in the first place B: The Speeding was reckless I have a friend who got an entirely fabricated ticket claiming he was doing 80+ going uphill on an on-ramp in an early 90s toyota corolla with four people and four desktops + a couple of CRTs. We weren't going faster than ~35. Ticket said it was radar verified but he was sitting on his hood eating a sandwich. Othe…

I'm from Atlanta. On 285 the speed limit is 55. Traffic moves at 80.

Only 80? Last time I went there it was going even faster but it's been years.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#167

Post by zdragnar »

blendo wrote: post #152

I’ve seen cars improve a lot over that last 10-20 years. Faster, smoother, quieter, and safer, they can cruise all day at 80-90 mph. Sadly, this is completely incompatible with 25 mph city speed limits. Thus, the need for engineering kludges like automotive speed limiters. I’d really like a new vehicle classification, perhaps along the lines of Medium Speed Electric Vehicles. Designed with a top speed of 40 to 45 mph…

Such a vehicle wouldn't be able to travel on a freeway at all [1], which means the market for them is very limited. Even in cities, people will want to hop on a freeway to cut across town more quickly.

[1] Most states have rules around operating a minimum speed with the flow of traffic, so cars inhibiting the flow or otherwise driving significantly slower than the cars around them are considered to be a safety hazard.

Some states are more objective by posting both minimum and maximum speed limits, though I personally find that freeways with speed minimums tend to actually have more people driving slow enough to cause disruptions.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#168

Post by mjevans »

vkou wrote: post #144
mjevans wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in WA State there's not-reckless speeding, which is something like 1-14 mph over the posted limit (I argue it should be more like a _percent_ E.G. going 40 mph in a 25 is WAY worse than going 75 on a 60 mph freeway). Then there's 'reckless endangerment' tier which is +15 over the limit. The example of that guy going 100 in a 40 is beyond even that. It's SO far outside of the range of permissible I don't even…

> My argument is that tracking, inhibitors, etc should be too far for the other cases, I'm sure the judge is more qualified than you are to make this determination. But if you disagree, let me pose a simple question: In a situation when a judge would suspend someone's license. Why are you opposed to giving them this as an alternative? (If they refuse to comply with this, the judge would happily offer them the suspens…

Slippery slope. It'd be assigned in way more cases because they can, because the _perceived_ impact is lower to someone else. Because it can be handled like yet another tax on offenders, including the poor. Because the companies selling it to the government would continue to lobby to sell it more often for more classes of offense.

Take the suspended license situation. At what point is the impact to society enough to just require assigning the person unlimited use of professional drivers to get around instead because the impact to society would be less? Or doing that after they spend time in jail? (As another question, is jail even effective at reform?)

The sort of person who repeatedly drives not just fast, but in ways that are clearly unwarranted danger, perhaps shows a larger defect. An individual who might have medical conditions that make rational thought and risk evaluation fail.

Sometimes, a person of adult age just isn't a true adult. Some device to limit a car's speed isn't going to prevent that sort of person from running a red light or over a jaywalker.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#169

Post by Dylan16807 »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #130
rightbyte wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it would work as a breath alcohol ignition interlock device when reselling. I.e. you just remove it.

That's what happens if you sell the car. What happens if the thing thinks the speed limit on a 65 MPH highway is 30 MPH? Or you have some emergency situation where a higher travel speed is a matter of life and death? Machines should never enforce laws because they don't have the ability to know when doing so would be unreasonable.

> some emergency situation where a higher travel speed is a matter of life and death

Can you describe such a situation?

I can't think of anything other than completely unrealistic action movie scenarios.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#170

Post by cowfarts »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #169
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what happens if you sell the car. What happens if the thing thinks the speed limit on a 65 MPH highway is 30 MPH? Or you have some emergency situation where a higher travel speed is a matter of life and death? Machines should never enforce laws because they don't have the ability to know when doing so would be unreasonable.

> some emergency situation where a higher travel speed is a matter of life and death Can you describe such a situation? I can't think of anything other than completely unrealistic action movie scenarios.

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