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Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

cnn.com

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Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#631

Post by xdennis »

Invictus0 wrote: post #529
atsaloli wrote: post #442

I was born in Soviet Russia, where the party line was: there is no God, there is no Soul, there is no Truth, and truth is what we tell the people. My family came to America to get away from that savage society and to live in a free country, based on voluntary cooperation (free market) not force and violence and coercion. In communism, the group is all and the individual is nothing. I do not believe it is okay to viol…

The legality of the government forcing a medical procedure for the common good been decided by the supreme Court nearly 100 years ago. There is no specific "liberty" that is being violated here.

The same decision (Jacobson v. Massachusetts, 1905) is what allowed the Eugenical Sterilization Act of 1924 and to force the sterilization of the undesirables.

If a law would be proposed today to disallow covid-unvaccinated people from having children, I bet you a good number of leftists would agree with it.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#632

Post by thomasfromcdnjs »

joeman1000 wrote: post #134
blub wrote: post #90

Very thought-provoking this mistreatment of the unvaccinated. The process started with demonizing them to the point of being singled out and blamed for how the disease is impacting society. When the discrimination started, there were very few willing to speak for them. Particularly malicious was the expansion of the term anti-vaxxer typically used for a fringe minority which “rejects all vaccines for everyone” to all…

I’m not vaccinated, this is how I feel. I am not militant or political about it. My wife and whole family are vaccinated and I helped them to do it. As a young man, the risk of heart issues does indeed outweigh the risk of hospitalisation from the virus (as I’ve weighed it, anyhow). Victoria, Australia has hit 90% double vaccinated and case numbers have not changed here. To see this underwhelming effect in light of t…

I'm a Victorian too, this is exactly me.

Everyone still laying judgement on my choice but 1) I can't go anywhere anyway 2) where is the promised herd immunity?

I'm lucky to have a big house and garden, just gonna keep waiting for this to end.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#633

Post by [deleted] »

Pyramus wrote: post #457
worik wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that everybody should get vaccinated. Let's make this virus extinct. But what you describe is majoritarianism. It is a form of democracy but a very weak form. For a lot of people, who are from minority groups, it is indistinguishable from totalitarianism. Why do 30% of people refuse to get vaccinated? (here in Aotearoa it is 5%). Something is happening, people are getting left behind, in vast numbers. Forcing…

> Why do 30% of people refuse to get vaccinated? (here in Aotearoa it is 5%). Something is happening, people are getting left behind, in vast numbers. It's an interesting question and there is lots of debate in Germany at the moment as to why. Some factors are: * Germany did very well during the pandemic so people didn't experience a Bergamo or Madrid moment * Germany has a strong esoteric / anthroposophical movement…

[deleted]

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#635

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0 »

kelnos wrote: post #601
chippy wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its worth remembering that division is due to the other side always . This is an absolute statement as division is literally caused by dividing between "sides". You get a divided country when the people within it divides each other into sides. Its never been the case when people have said "our side has caused the division". never. That is the irony you should be finding! If you do finally see this irony you might fin…

If 70% want one thing and 30% want another, it doesn't matter who "caused" the division; in a democratic society you should be doing the thing that 70% of the people want. Except! And this is a big "except": when doing the thing the majority wants would violate the civil rights of the minority. The problem (in the US, at least; I can't speak for Germany) is that the minority is trying to paint vaccination as a civil…

Should and must are very different things. One implies I get a choice to opt out. One implies some sort of coercion.

I don't buy this phrasing, or the rule. Even if read with best intentions. I can't even imagine how ridiculously bad US would be if it was actually ruled based on what 70% of the population wants.

I am not even joking. I think you may want to rethink your argument.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#636

Post by abduhl »

jasonhansel wrote: post #461

Good. Here's hoping the US follows suit. Thankfully the Supreme Court has already settled the constitutionality issue: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1449224/

"Even in an emergency, when there is a rapidly spreading contagious disease and an effective vaccine, the state is not permitted to forcibly vaccinate or medicate anyone."

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#637

Post by EricE »

lb0 wrote: post #590
worik wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that everybody should get vaccinated. Let's make this virus extinct. But what you describe is majoritarianism. It is a form of democracy but a very weak form. For a lot of people, who are from minority groups, it is indistinguishable from totalitarianism. Why do 30% of people refuse to get vaccinated? (here in Aotearoa it is 5%). Something is happening, people are getting left behind, in vast numbers. Forcing…

> Why do 30% of people refuse to get vaccinated? (here in Aotearoa it is 5%). Something is happening, people are getting left behind, in vast numbers. Forcing them to comply is probably a cure worse than the disease - even a disease like COVID Yeah, please please come here and find a way to "unloose" these people, I'm out of clue. We have a lot of failures here in Germany that surface, everything is too slow, from ba…

>I really start hating my country and fellow citizens, so many spoiled brats living in prosperity, complaining about everything, believing in total bullshit, it is unbelievable.

So what do you think getting 100% of humans is going to do, especially since the virus is carried and transmitted by animals too? You aren't going to wipe it out.

And for the vast majority of the population - especially those under 60 and without any co-morbidities the chances of COVID requiring hospitalization, let alone ICU admission is negligible. At worst equal to the flu. Yes, for the vulnerable COVID is not good - but that's hardly unique to COVID too.

So not sure where YOU get off casting aspersions that anyone who doesn't get the vax is selfish - there is ZERO to back that up and rhetoric such as this is the yellow star of David crap reborn in modern clothing.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#638

Post by jansan »

worik wrote: post #388
timdaub wrote: post #369

I find it ironic that there are plenty comments that paint the picture of how mandatory vaccinations divide the country. Hello? Have you been awake for the last month? How much more divided can a country already be when the absolute democratic majority has made their decision months ago to take the shot but 30% are holding everyone back. Anyone in my family or from my friends that has taken one for the team (and got…

I agree that everybody should get vaccinated. Let's make this virus extinct. But what you describe is majoritarianism. It is a form of democracy but a very weak form. For a lot of people, who are from minority groups, it is indistinguishable from totalitarianism. Why do 30% of people refuse to get vaccinated? (here in Aotearoa it is 5%). Something is happening, people are getting left behind, in vast numbers. Forcing…

It's 30% of the whole population, including small children who cannot get vaccinated at all.

My younger son (14 years old) is not vaccinated. He will be banned from entering shops, probably from playing tennis, and our family will not be allowed to meet other families this winter.

The reason why he is not vaccinated is that in Germany he would get the same amount of vaccine as a 150kg person. In the UK and Sweden they only give one dose to minors, not so in Germany. He is healthy, and does a lot of sports, so for him I see a higher risk from the vaccine (myocarditis) than from COVID-19.

Also, the federal vaccination commission (Stiko) has explicitly demanded that there should be no social discrimination for minors based on their vaccination status as a condition for recommending the vaccines for 12 to 17 year olds. We trusted this recommendation.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#639

Post by spookthesunset »

labster wrote: post #413
spookthesunset wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So uh, maybe we decide that life doesn’t need to be permanently centered around Covid and just move on? And realistically that is what society will do. Move on. There are infinitely more problems in the world than just Covid. Solving for exactly Covid to the exclusion of literally everything else is complete madness. Any rational person will tell you that. Life is to short to maintain a Covid centric lifestyle… life…

> Oh yeah, and we’ve been wringing our hands about hospital capacity for 2 years now. Perhaps we should ask why there isn’t any effort at all into increasing it? Yeah seriously, it’s been two years, why haven’t we doubled the number of doctors and nurses by now? Just add more conveyor belts to our factorio.

That is just an excuse though. Figure it out. It’s an emergency. You don’t get to throw up your hands and say it’s impossible. Figure it out. It’s been two years. Where is the hospital capacity to manage this huge emergency?

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#640

Post by spookthesunset »

chki wrote: post #427
spookthesunset wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So uh, maybe we decide that life doesn’t need to be permanently centered around Covid and just move on? And realistically that is what society will do. Move on. There are infinitely more problems in the world than just Covid. Solving for exactly Covid to the exclusion of literally everything else is complete madness. Any rational person will tell you that. Life is to short to maintain a Covid centric lifestyle… life…

Increasing hospital capacities is almost pointless because new cases will be exponential. So doubling your ICU-capacities (which is extremely difficult to do, mainly because you don't have the staff) will buy you two-three weeks until the hospital is full again.

Why has this literally never happened anywhere?
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