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Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

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Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#421

Post by monksy »

Just a heads up about what is happening in Germany: (Just got back Monday from Hamburg)

1. Entry restriction: You must be vaccinated to enter from nonEU countries (Vaccation must be in the approved list)

2. Most restaraunt/bars/outdoor gatherings are either 2G/3G. The bahn is 3g (so testing as well). Nearly everything else is 2G. This includes the food hall in the airport. Enforcement is at entry. You must show your personal|lebenlingsausweiss and your coronapass. (identity license, and vacination evidence.. CDC vaccine card can work.. but get it converted and your life will be easy)

2g = genesen, geimpfung / recovered, vacced 3g = 2g+ gettestet

3. Many restaurants expect or require you to use Luca to participate in contact tracing. If that is not possible they do a manual collection of info.

These rules are even enforced at outdoor gatherings such as weihnachtmarkts.

Denmark/Coppenhagen: Only ate inside at one place. They only wanted to see my coronapass.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#422

Post by throwaway47292 »

timdaub wrote: post #369

I find it ironic that there are plenty comments that paint the picture of how mandatory vaccinations divide the country. Hello? Have you been awake for the last month? How much more divided can a country already be when the absolute democratic majority has made their decision months ago to take the shot but 30% are holding everyone back. Anyone in my family or from my friends that has taken one for the team (and got…

Do you think the % of unvaccinated would stay the same next year? My gut feeling is that it will increase, every 6 months when the new booster is needed we will get more and more people not wanting it.

How long until the unvaccinated are more than the vaccinated? 18 months?

What happens when they are the majority and ban all vaccines?

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#423

Post by jseban »

tomohawk wrote: post #301
GVIrish wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sweden did worse than the other Scandinavian countries that enacted stricter Covid restrictions, including lockdowns. Sweden had roughly 5-7x as many deaths per capita as its immediate neighbors of Norway and Finland. Germany had less deaths per capita as well: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

What is this obsession with limiting comparison of Sweden with "other scandanavian countries"? Is there some sort of special risk factor that only applies to scandanavia? Does COVID know what people look like? Why not compare stats of major metro areas with other similar metro areas in the world?

It's always cherry picking to deliberately misinterpret statistics to make the most dramatic headline, it has been during the whole pandemic. Nobody is even trying to make accurate and relevant conclusions with the numbers, quite the opposite it's like a sport now who can lie the most with statistics.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#424

Post by mattzito »

prohobo wrote: post #398
worik wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that everybody should get vaccinated. Let's make this virus extinct. But what you describe is majoritarianism. It is a form of democracy but a very weak form. For a lot of people, who are from minority groups, it is indistinguishable from totalitarianism. Why do 30% of people refuse to get vaccinated? (here in Aotearoa it is 5%). Something is happening, people are getting left behind, in vast numbers. Forcing…

You cannot make this virus extinct . These vaccines do not accomplish this goal, the end.

Sure, but we can make the virus largely irrelevant in terms of its impact on peoples lives. We can reduce the number of people who suffer long term consequences, the number of deaths, and the load on hospitals. We can make it harder for new, more dangerous, variants to arise.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#425

Post by throwoutway »

prohobo wrote: post #398
worik wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that everybody should get vaccinated. Let's make this virus extinct. But what you describe is majoritarianism. It is a form of democracy but a very weak form. For a lot of people, who are from minority groups, it is indistinguishable from totalitarianism. Why do 30% of people refuse to get vaccinated? (here in Aotearoa it is 5%). Something is happening, people are getting left behind, in vast numbers. Forcing…

You cannot make this virus extinct . These vaccines do not accomplish this goal, the end.

Thank you! It’s this myth that keeps perpetuating that makes people think mandates are acceptable.

And I say that as someone vaccinated.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#426

Post by TacticalCoder »

somewhereoutth wrote: post #354

Realistically: 1) Mandatory vaccination, all age groups, boosters etc. AND 2) permanently reconfiguring our society to reduce social contacts such that with the vaccines, COVID is suppressed. If the vaccines work well, then small (maybe no) changes will be needed. If they don't, then large changes. WFH, no indoor hospitality etc. We can cycle through lockdowns, we can wring our hands about vaccinating children, we ca…

> 1) Mandatory vaccination, all age groups, boosters etc.

50% to 60% of all the people in ICU with covid related symptoms in the EU atm are fully vaccinated.

It's been lies from day one: "masks do not protect" then "masks are mandatory because they protect" (I don't know which one is correct but at least one is a lie), "you're a conspiracy theorist if you think there's any link between a virus research lab in Wuhan and the fact that the outbreak started there" then now "a lab escape is a possibility", then Fauci commited a crime by lying in front of congress (he then retracted himself after having been called out by senator Rand paul) "I had no idea there was gain of function research done in the Wuhan lab", then "we will never discriminate between vaccinated and non vaccinated people", etc. ad nauseam.

Then the mRNA vaccine (which I got) was sold us as major scientific discovery and as a panacea. Turns out that "vaccine" doesn't confer a long lasting immunity at all (otherwise there wouldn't be 50 to 60% of ICU beds in Europe filled with fully vaccinated people).

I don't think suppression is possible with a non-sterilizing vaccine. I think it's even less possible that it's even less possible with something that is called a "vaccine" but that isn't really one (Merriam-Webster recently changed, by sheer chance, the very definition of what a vaccine is, but I need time to adapt to the new definition).

The virus is here to stay and we won't get rid of it with snake oil (I'm not saying the mRNA Pfizer shots don't work at all, I'm saying their effectiveness is extermely limited seen that ICU beds are filled with vaccinated people).

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#427

Post by chki »

spookthesunset wrote: post #397
somewhereoutth wrote: post #354

Realistically: 1) Mandatory vaccination, all age groups, boosters etc. AND 2) permanently reconfiguring our society to reduce social contacts such that with the vaccines, COVID is suppressed. If the vaccines work well, then small (maybe no) changes will be needed. If they don't, then large changes. WFH, no indoor hospitality etc. We can cycle through lockdowns, we can wring our hands about vaccinating children, we ca…

So uh, maybe we decide that life doesn’t need to be permanently centered around Covid and just move on? And realistically that is what society will do. Move on. There are infinitely more problems in the world than just Covid. Solving for exactly Covid to the exclusion of literally everything else is complete madness. Any rational person will tell you that. Life is to short to maintain a Covid centric lifestyle… life…

Increasing hospital capacities is almost pointless because new cases will be exponential. So doubling your ICU-capacities (which is extremely difficult to do, mainly because you don't have the staff) will buy you two-three weeks until the hospital is full again.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#428

Post by crooked-v »

prohobo wrote: post #398
worik wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that everybody should get vaccinated. Let's make this virus extinct. But what you describe is majoritarianism. It is a form of democracy but a very weak form. For a lot of people, who are from minority groups, it is indistinguishable from totalitarianism. Why do 30% of people refuse to get vaccinated? (here in Aotearoa it is 5%). Something is happening, people are getting left behind, in vast numbers. Forcing…

You cannot make this virus extinct . These vaccines do not accomplish this goal, the end.

However, they do accomplish the goal of stopping it from being a pandemic. With enough people vaccinated to reduce the R-value below 1, reinfections from animal reservoirs will become inherently self-limiting.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#429

Post by vkou »

throw20211202 wrote: post #216
user-the-name wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sweden had mortality rates nearly 10x those of their neighbours.

Not really, though: * Sweden: 1,485 * Denmark: 500 * Finland: 244 * Norway: 199 * Iceland (not really a neighbour, being a 1000 miles away, accross an ocean): 102 Some more random cherrypicking: * USA: 2,414 * Italy: 2,221 * Belgium: 2,322 * UK: 2,124 * Russia: 1,901 * Peru: 5,984 Deaths per million capita, as of 2nd december 2021, from[1]. [1] All numbers from https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

The numbers in Russia cannot be believed. My entire extended family (in Moscow) caught what was almost certainly COVID (Most of them twice, my grandfather was at death's door over it), and not a single one of them got a positive diagnosis.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#430

Post by thomasahle »

thomasahle wrote: post #283
kareemm wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the breakdown of unvaxxed/vaxxed in hospital admissions and deaths? Serious question. I wonder about vaxx effectiveness when I see these numbers. But the breakdown matters. I live in Nova Scotia, Canada. Our breakdown from Mar 15-Nov 26 is[1]: - Hospitalizations: 84.4% unvaxxed, 9.6% 1 shot, 6% 2 shots - Deaths: 69% unvaxxed, 7.1% 1 shot, 23.8% 2 shots Total admissions and death rate numbers don't tell the wh…

> What is the breakdown of unvaxxed/vaxxed in hospital admissions and deaths? 85.6% of hospitalized in Denmark are either unvaccinated or "half vaccinated". See https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/aa41b29149f24e20a40... graph 2. This means that if the vaccination rate grew from 90% to 100% the hospitalized number would drop to very manageable levels. Even with a 90% fully vaccinated population, the remaining 10%…

Edit: I think I misunderstood the graph. It is actually already normalized by the size of each population (Unvaccinated, Half-vaccinated, Fully vaccinated).

If you look at the raw numbers nearly twice as many of the hospitalized are vaccinated.

When taking the vaccination rate into account, the likelihood of hospitalization still seems to be a fifth after vaccination.

But even if the remaining population got vaccinated it wouldn't be enough to drastically reduce the hospital load.

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