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CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

lists.centos.org

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Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#631

Post by bierjunge »

hjb100 wrote: post #627
kseifried wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I don't get is this: You build software, you ship it on an OS so it works, cool, this makes sense (I assume you need hardware and VM support, not just VM). Why would you accept additional risk on the OS if you can easily reduce the risk, and ultimate cost, by going with an OS that has vendor support written into the actual contract? RHEL is 11-13 years total, Windows is... I'm guessing my grandkids will be using…

As a sysadmin in academia, this is not so straightforward. Since number of servers/VMs are in ballpark of over one hundred, RedHat license costs will be over 30,000$/year. This is not insignificant amount of money and not easy to get the money suddenly.

$30k is a significant amount, especially in academic environment, I don't deny it. But it's not much for > 100 servers. In my previous job, I had licenses which were about 15k€ for one server (thanks Oracle...) and the Windows Server licenses were also pretty expensive. $300-500 per server/year is not much more than a Photoshop license for one designer. And if we talk big business (1000's of servers and even more), you will get very special pricing anyway.

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#632

Post by redhat_a »

awill wrote: post #109

This is awful. It's proof of the downsides to the IBM acquisition, which I think we all knew was coming. Imagine if you were running a business, and deployed CentOS 8 based on the 10 year lifespan promise. You're totally screwed now, and Red Hat knows it. Why on earth didn't they make this switch starting with CentOS 9???? Let's not sugar coat this. They've betrayed their users. I personally run a CentOS 7 server (as…

You're absolutely right. You should definitely demand a full refund on all the money you've paid for CentOS!

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#633

Post by russfink »

bierjunge wrote: post #631
hjb100 wrote: post #627

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a sysadmin in academia, this is not so straightforward. Since number of servers/VMs are in ballpark of over one hundred, RedHat license costs will be over 30,000$/year. This is not insignificant amount of money and not easy to get the money suddenly.

$30k is a significant amount, especially in academic environment, I don't deny it. But it's not much for > 100 servers. In my previous job, I had licenses which were about 15k€ for one server (thanks Oracle...) and the Windows Server licenses were also pretty expensive. $300-500 per server/year is not much more than a Photoshop license for one designer. And if we talk big business (1000's of servers and even more), y…

Not just price, but ability to function without constant access to the satellite portal. It's darn near impossible to upgrade a RHEL box from a work at home VPN environment.

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#634

Post by pnutjam »

apecat wrote: post #549
pnutjam wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Supported for "at least" 36 months. You can get extended support and it's usually quiet a bit more.

Do you know what kind of price range would that be?

You'd have to convert to SLES and buy extended support.

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#635

Post by the_jeremy »

lokedhs wrote: post #509
thayne wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Red Hat didn't make CentOS they acquired it. This is very similar to a large corporation acquiring a smaller competitor, promising to continue supporting it, creating a new, different product using the brand, then dropping the original product.

Centos was always a free alternative to Redhat. I and many other people used it because it was a way to get the benefits of Redhat without paying for it. This is a really smart more on their part to get people to stop doing precisely this, and getting them to pay money for RH. Pepople who are not willing to pay (me included) are now rightly annoyed, but we were never their customers in the first place, so we don't re…

I disagree. Having a pool of sysadmins / developers who know how to manage CentOS makes RHEL a more appealing alternative than Debian for many companies. The three companies I've worked at have primary used CentOS for development boxes. Shifting to an alternative will change who is familiar with CentOS / RHEL significantly for the worse.

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#636

Post by bickelwilliam »

Hmm.. In terms of alternatives, how can we be sure that Ubuntu sponsor Canonical will not get acquired and change the rules of how freely Ubuntu stable versions are available? This whole thing is making me rethink if it makes sense to rely on free unsupported software at the operating system level. I don't trust oracle and cloud linux also seems like a commercial company wanting to profit from Linux like Red Hat. Hmmm...

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#637

Post by soraminazuki »

nix23 wrote: post #630
soraminazuki wrote: post #625

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That says a lot about your packaging hygine. With alien, you're essentially dumping the contents of an RPM on hosts it wasn't meant for. It doen't matter that you converted it to deb format along the way, it's the same if you actually install it.

MyMy, you have no clue how packages and a package-manager works right?

Did you ever read a single line of alien source code? It extracts the metadata and files from a package, and re-archives it. That’s about it. It doesn’t handle package version differences, path differences, distro-specific rules, nothing. If your package has dependencies, forget about it because alien won’t retain dependency information it all. In other words, it only “works” for the most simple of cases.

I suggest you read the source code too, because otherwise you can cause real damage if you use it without understanding how it works.

https://sources.debian.org/src/alien/8.95/alien.pl/

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#638

Post by tekmonks »

We are creating the next RHEL based Enterprise Linux - same as CentOS used to be. Targeted first release is January 31, 2021.

Looking for both volunteers or people who want to be paid for their efforts. Join us to secure Enterprise Linux as a free (as in beer and freedom) for the foreseeable future.

https://monkos.org

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#639

Post by mattdm »

bayindirh wrote: post #614
mattdm wrote: post #602

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can totally reassure you on your last concern: everything that goes into Stream is approved for a minor release in RHEL. That's not changing at all. Cutting edge is still Fedora's turf. :)

Thanks, because that last point would be actually breaking in some cases. I think HN is the only place where you can casually provide feedback and get answers about an OS project from one of the core people in it. Fun! Glad to meet you, BTW.

To be clear, I'm RHEL and CentOS _adjacent_, rather than actively _in_ them. But I think (rough launch and more than a few communication issues) aside this is generally gonna be positive.

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#640

Post by mattdm »

curt15 wrote: post #106
mattdm wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this will be expanding to cover more use cases. See https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/faq-centos-stream-updates#Q10 : _In the first half of 2021, we will be introducing low- or no-cost programs for a variety of use cases, including options for open source projects and communities, partner ecosystems and an expansion of the use cases of the Red Hat Enterprise Linux Developer subscription to better serve the needs of…

How about discounts for universities? They could take a page from Microsoft, which introduces students and teachers to its ecosystem with low-cost versions of Windows and Office.

I don't know the specifics but I would be surprised if this isn't one of the areas under consideration.
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