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They're deleting my channel, but they don't know why? [video]

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Re: They're deleting my channel, but they don't know why? [video]

#631

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The accepting false DMCA claims is something that the DMCA system sort of requires them to do. However they have in the past sued people who have issued false DMCA claims.

> The accepting false DMCA claims is something that the DMCA system sort of requires them to do. No, the DMCA allows for counter claiming and it not being an issue. Google's policies go beyond what's required for the DMCA, and stem from the early several billion dollar copyright lawsuit they settled out of court with the major labels fairly early on. It's an extralegal system negotiated between Google and the labels.…

This requires very minimal effort to find.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/8/19/20812144/youtube-copyrigh...

Re: They're deleting my channel, but they don't know why? [video]

#632
post #583

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do have support infrastructure for their customers. Youtube content creators are not customers, they’re more akin to contractors (when paid) and volunteers (when not). In fact, google is the customer in this relationship, and they are within their rights to stop buying the product without having to explain why. It is on content creators to diversify their business. If a contractor has only a single customer beca…

> they are within their rights to stop buying the product without having to explain why. This might be right if they were a mom and pop store with 5 others within a couple of blocks. There is no viable alternative to Youtube so they don't get to make these calls.

You said don't, did you mean shouldn't? Because seems to me like they do get to.

Re: They're deleting my channel, but they don't know why? [video]

#633

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they are within their rights to stop buying the product without having to explain why. This might be right if they were a mom and pop store with 5 others within a couple of blocks. There is no viable alternative to Youtube so they don't get to make these calls.

You said don't, did you mean shouldn't? Because seems to me like they do get to.

They will get smashed for this eventually

Re: They're deleting my channel, but they don't know why? [video]

#634
post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, Google has nothing to fear here. The DMCA -- as much as we generally think it's a poorly-thought-out law -- already handles this. There's no need for Google to do anything beyond handling DMCA notices in accordance with the law, but they've decided -- likely because it's better for business -- to cater to the needs of large rights holders at the expense of individuals. As long as they handle DMCA notice…

> Google has nothing to fear here Viacom still sued Google 10 years ago and dragged them through three court rulings before Google agreed to settle [1]. It didn't matter that early rulings favored YouTube on the matter of DMCA compliance, the content owners will find a way to hurt you and lock you in court. After Google settled the case, they created Content ID and Viacom stopped attacking them. It frustrates that ev…

It's a shame they caved and settled. If anyone has deep enough pockets to fight something like that, you'd think it's Google, even 10 years ago.

Re: They're deleting my channel, but they don't know why? [video]

#635

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The accepting false DMCA claims is something that the DMCA system sort of requires them to do. However they have in the past sued people who have issued false DMCA claims.

> The accepting false DMCA claims is something that the DMCA system sort of requires them to do. No, the DMCA allows for counter claiming and it not being an issue. Google's policies go beyond what's required for the DMCA, and stem from the early several billion dollar copyright lawsuit they settled out of court with the major labels fairly early on. It's an extralegal system negotiated between Google and the labels.…

>No, the DMCA allows for counter claiming and it not being an issue. Google's policies go beyond what's required for the DMCA, and stem from the early several billion dollar copyright lawsuit they settled out of court with the major labels fairly early on. It's an extralegal system negotiated between Google and the labels.

You're conflating two different things, perhaps intentionally.

Content ID, which is the additional system you're referring to, does not and cannot cause an account to be closed[1]. If content in your video is flagged by Content ID, all that happens is that the advertising revenue from your video is directed to the purported copyright holder, or the video is removed from YouTube. You do not receive any strikes and your channel is not limited in any way.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/howyoutubeworks/policies/copyright/#...

Copyright strikes[2] are a completely different kettle of fish, and Google is bound by the DMCA to immediately and without question remove the allegedly infringing content. In fact, they are expressly forbidden by law to perform any sort of investigation before making the content unavailable or they risk losing immunity under the safe harbour provisions.

And far from accepting DMCA claims "with no recourse" as you suggest, they openly publish a variety of training materials to teach users exactly how to file a counter-claim[3], and they routinely accept those counter-claims and restore the content.

[2] https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/2814000

[3] https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/2807684

>Can you give an example of someone they've sued for making false claims?

Christopher Brady.

https://www.engadget.com/2019-08-20-youtube-lawsuit-false-ta...

https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/15/20915688/youtube-copyrig...

Re: They're deleting my channel, but they don't know why? [video]

#636
post #591
post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alas, yes. That's a big part of why I suggest that regulation, if we want any at all, should focus on lowing the barriers to entry and shy away from mandating specific behaviour. The latter can be gamed by the people who can afford the good lawyers, and makes entry for newcomers even harder. Your comparison to finance is apt. It's one of the worst examples of regulatory capture. And many people have very dangerous id…

You need regulation with teeth, that is reviewed and updated dynamically with the marketplace it is regulating to ensure fair competition AND consumer benefit. Right now we have regulations that heavily lag current realities and weak regulatory bodies that can be corrupted or lack power to effect change. The alternative you mentioned of no regulation can't exist, because someone is always regulating the market, if no…

> The alternative you mentioned of no regulation can't exist, because someone is always regulating the market, if not the .gov, then whoever has the biggest clout within the marketplace gets to play regulator and gatekeeper often to the detriment of the competition and consumers.

Yes, exactly. I am suggesting that competition and low barriers to entry to ensure that it's _customers_ that are regulating the markets, whenever possible.

> You need regulation with teeth, that is reviewed and updated dynamically with the marketplace it is regulating to ensure fair competition AND consumer benefit.

I agree that regulation needs to have teeth. My favourite example of a jurisdiction with light regulation but lots of teeth is my adopted home of Singapore.

By and large, our government here leaves the economy alone, but when they implement some regulation, they do so properly and enforce it.

> Right now we have regulations that heavily lag current realities and weak regulatory bodies that can be corrupted or lack power to effect change.

Honest and competent civil servants are the rarest and most precious of resources. Arrange matters to economise on their time and energy.

An interesting example of that principle is in bankruptcy law. There are generally two ways to deal with a business can't pay:

(1) Cut a deal with the creditors

(2) Liquidate the business and pay off the creditors as much as possible according to the fine print signed

If the business in question is a going concern, (2) is a losing proposition, but its very possibility tends to encourage everyone involved to work out a deal under case (1). (And even if you sell off the business to the highest bidder in case (2), the new owner can opt to continue running essentially the same organisation, if that makes sense.)

In a sane legal system, the judiciary might be involved briefly for option (2), if current management is unwilling. But most of the time, all participants can just agree that negotiations failed, and proceed with orderly liquidation.

Now in eg the US that beautiful simplicity is marred by a third option, where a judge gets involved big time. Judges are (hopefully) almost the prototype of a highly trained, honest, competent civil servant.

Alas, the very existence of this third option, blunts the previously sharp incentives on everyone to get a deal done under case (1).

To come back to your point: it's also pretty obvious that there's many more opportunities for corruption and graft for the court appointed manager in the third case, than the simple auction of all assets in the second case.

Re: They're deleting my channel, but they don't know why? [video]

#637
post #583

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do have support infrastructure for their customers. Youtube content creators are not customers, they’re more akin to contractors (when paid) and volunteers (when not). In fact, google is the customer in this relationship, and they are within their rights to stop buying the product without having to explain why. It is on content creators to diversify their business. If a contractor has only a single customer beca…

It is on content creators to diversify their business. If a contractor has only a single customer ... Yes, this is the monopoly part of the argument. There are no real and practical alternatives for content creators, it seems.

I did see a non YouTube video link on HN recently...

Re: They're deleting my channel, but they don't know why? [video]

#638
post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you want a video platform that deletes stuff? Or one that doesn't? Choice A leads to the problem this thread is discussing. Choice B leads to the problem you're describing. Personally I would prefer a choice C, a platform that deletes stuff I don't like and nothing else, but I don't think that's on offer. The closest thing available is platforms that delete stuff that offends their target demographic, as determine…

>Do you want a video platform that deletes stuff? Or one that doesn't? If I have to choose between a platform that let's anti-Semitism run rampart and Youtube I'll pick Youtube. However the actual solution is a platform that that develops enough tools and hires enough human moderators to thwart blatant racism or hateful content while not accidentally kicking creators off the platform. This is mostly a question of eff…

As someone whose skull would get measured again, please don't use tangential topics to justify censorship. It isn't anti-semitism that will get censored, it will be directed towards any form of dissident. Jews or minorities were never suppressed because there was too much freedom of speech or too much free media.

If the internet gets censored in the name of anti-semitism it would certainly not decrease animosity. Furthermore the blind crackdown on "disinformation" only increased reach of right leaning parties. The result should be observable since there is now enough empirical evidence. Trying the same strategy over and over might not be too prudent.

For some people a trimmed garden might be preferable and that is completely fine. But I don't think that is true for everyone. And there are enough alternatives, you can just watch TV or select another channel.

Stop your paternalism by pretending everyone gets influence because some YouTube videos don't fit your taste.

Re: They're deleting my channel, but they don't know why? [video]

#639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An old office mate had been a systems programmer back in the days of mainframes. He once put a local-site patch into the mainframe boot code where the question about wiping and restoring the on-line storage required operators to type in, correctly capitalized and punctuated, the precise string: "Yes, I really do want to spend the entirety of my shift hanging tapes." .... and someone still did it. The struggle is real…

In electrical engineering, the saying is "Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool." Also, in computer folklore, there are numerous stories of how non-technical users purposefully destroy foolproof mechanisms by brute-force, e.g. cut the slot on a DDR3 socket to insert a DDR2 RAM module and fry everything... And I wonder whether "don't use brute-force, if you have difficulty getting it in, it means you ar…

I think this is a good analogy for software. To the typical user, some software is easy and sensical, while other is obtuse and requires significant jiggering just to do the thing it was ostensibly designed to do.

Re: They're deleting my channel, but they don't know why? [video]

#640

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You said don't, did you mean shouldn't? Because seems to me like they do get to.

They will get smashed for this eventually

The are betting on that "eventually" being many many miles down the road. They will fix some of the issues/cases (ad hoc) for the vocal minority, they will pretend they didn't see for the silent majority that suffers from the same side effects.

As a parent stated, the content creators are NOT the clients. Client is the one who pays you money. So advertisers need to be kept happy. If this guy goes down, the guitar makers will advertise on the next guy/lady in line. And the (true) client (advertiser) will be happy.

One of the reason that Google is making crazy money is that they cut plenty of corners in support. And it serves THEM (YT) right to do so.

This video has less than 100k views. "Charlie bit my finger" has 876 Million views.

In work I use the phrase "it is not a Problem until it becomes one".

One content creator (or a thousand) complaining is NOT a problem for YT. A Problem is if YT drops from 100M views per day (or whatever that number is) to 20M views per day.

If you ask me, YouTube is having it good. And if this content creator goes down, his followers will jump on the next guitar player teacher person.

Apologies if my comment seems to cold. I believe it reflects the mentality of YT.

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