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China Blocks WhatsApp

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Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#631

Post by Mikeb85 »

ernst_klim wrote: post #626
Mikeb85 wrote: post #595

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, US NGOs, the CIA, and western governments had nothing to do with it... The Canadian government actually admitted to involvement in Maidan and providing support to "protestors". Also, if they were wanted by a majority of the people, that's why pro-Russian governments were back in power soon after, right? The Orange Revolution government barely lasted a couple years before imploding, and the Maidan government is go…

>why pro-Russian governments were back in power soon after, right? Like Yanukovytch, who offered eurointegration, and was thrown after breaking his promises?

He didn't break his promise, Merkel gave him the impossible scenario of having to break economic ties with Russia, which accounts for 30% of Ukraine's trade, in return for integration and no firm guarantees of any economic boost.

How's Poroshenko doing these days anyhow?

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#632

Post by Nomentatus »

Nomentatus wrote: post #338
adventured wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India with its 1.3 billion people is capable of operating via a Democratic system (with its various issues and flaws not detracting from that fact), and they're even poorer than China and with fewer resources. There's no reason China can't manage a successful (even if messy) transition away from authoritarianism to a variation of representative government.

Corruption is worse in India than China, and that's problem one. Not coincidentally, growth in India has generally been slower (until recently) and just dropped. And India may be devolving into a theocracy. Not the most attractive example.

It always surprises me what surprises people.

Peeps, how about a little bibliography if you're going to downvote? A downvote isn't supposed to mean "I wish that weren't true, so it can't be."

Too close to call on corruption https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/interactive/2011/d...

Theocracy, read about the BJP, and restriction of freedom of the press around religion. This might be a start: Censoring Indian History By Audrey Truschke Posted 27th July 2017, 11:50 Laws against religious offence in India have altered the writing and understanding of the nation’s past.

In the end, I made numerous wording changes to both books and, most dramatically, in Aurangzeb I cut several sentences that outlined Shivaji’s caste background and relations with Brahmins, the priestly caste, topics which are especially sensitive to those who subscribe to the modern mythology of Shivaji. In addition, the publisher declined to publish a map in the Indian edition of Aurangzeb showing the extent of the Mughal Empire, noting that a prison term can now await those who publish maps of India without first gaining government approval. Religious (and nationalist) sentiments are increasingly trumping historical truth in modern India.

Audrey Truschke is the author of Aurangzeb: The Life and Legacy of India’s Most Controversial King (Stanford University Press, 2017) and Culture of Encounters: Sanskrit at the Mughal Court (Columbia University Press, 2016).

http://www.historytoday.com/audrey-truschke/censoring-indian...

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#633

Post by newen »

teknologist wrote: post #514
hhw wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China has a long and proud tradition as being at the forefront of civilization, and they see the last 100+ years or so just as a temporary setback. The current ruling class may not see the need to share with the outside world. This may sadly result in the decline of China's competitiveness on the world stage, but those in the ruling class may be more concerned with consolidating their power within the country. This i…

WeChat's "features"? Come on people, these chat apps are pretty basic I use both WeChat and WhatsApp extensively

Wechat had audio messages way before whatsapp. And the animated emojis way before facebook. Both used to be the shit when I was using wechat a couple of years ago. Also you can use wechat to as essentially a credit card. It's like a blob app that has everything in it.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#634

Post by newen »

throwaway1984_ wrote: post #578
sytelus wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think there is virtually any impact on innovations in China because of western social media censorships. China is on track to match US in AI research paper output, for example. Same goes for other fields in medicine and manufacturing. Also, you have to look at Chinese view point to understand why there is no revolt in China around blocking Google or Facebook. The argument that government has successfully made…

High-output of research papers from China is not surprising at all: considering they pay hundreds of thousands of dollars per paper published in a prestigious journal[1]. [1]: https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/chinese-scholars-w...

It's not too different from the publish or perish culture in US academia, only with a solid cash reward for publishing in peer reviewed journals. I mean professors here are filtered for number of articles here too. Considering the amount of funding that goes to research groups in some universites with the same amount of quality research output as research groups in smaller universities with drastically lower funding, I don't even think it's economically wasteful.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#635

Post by chaostheory »

627467 wrote: post #453
pishpash wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There will be a bottleneck. It took hundreds of years of sea ban for Ming China to fall behind in the Age of Sail; it might take a few decades for a closed society to euthanize itself in a digital age built on free exchange and open discourse.

But thats not the direction communist china has been taking. It has been opening more and more since the 70s

Yes, it’s been that way until now. That was my point.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#636

Post by seppin »

doktrin wrote: post #492
flexie wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think censorship is only part of the reason. Protectionism and national security probably plays a role aswell. Look at the list of websites they block: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Websites_blocked_in_mainland... Google, facebook, instagram, twitter etc. Those are one-way streets that provide next to no jobs, little tech transfer and no tax revenue to the countries they do business in, but tend to outcompete the…

Frankly I agree, and would not shed a year if Google and FB were banned in other regions, allowing local competitors to develop. I don't buy this idea that the silicon valley hegemony is an unequivocally good thing.

A Chinese Gov/Mil alternative would be unequivocally better?

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#637

Post by NicoJuicy »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #591
NicoJuicy wrote: post #589

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps you are not aware of how hard it is to get your money out of China. And others end in 'partnerships'

Having done it myself many times, I'm totally aware. Thankfully, as a foreigner or foreign company, I only need to present tax receipts. Still a PITA, but there are no hard limits at least.

Haven't ever done it, but at least I see it's a PITA. As I thought :p

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#638

Post by inimino »

usaar333 wrote: post #594
inimino wrote: post #582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> VC Consumers have an app in their pocket that has everyone they know in it and can make a video call with two taps. For corporate video conferencing there are paid solutions just like everywhere else. So a free desktop app like Skype for video conferencing has no appeal. > Baidu The Baidu translate app has all those features and even a mini app for conversations in a walkie-talkie-like mode. > Maps You can set a fu…

I'm thinking more along the lines of quality as well as features. > VC And both Hangouts and Skype both have very good mobile apps - at least on par with Wechat. The fact that the desktop component is limited sucks -- it makes it painful for me to say practice Chinese with relatives I have in China. (a laptop or desktop screen is a far better form factor than a small mobile device). I agree with you that desktop is t…

> VC

I think the desktop case is 5% in the US, but 0.5% in China. It is more of a "mobile first" environment, because they skipped a lot of early PC development that only happened in the US.

> translation

I have tried both the Google and Baidu camera translation apps on iOS. The Google real time one was completely useless for me. You have to hold the camera steady and try to read the translation, which is word-for-word and hilariously wrong as often as not, and constantly changing as the camera moves and it (mis)reads the characters in different ways. Furthermore the stretched and overlayed "translated" English text is difficult to read. It looks like a very nice tech demo, but it has no practical utility for me. In contrast with the Baidu app, you take a picture, select the text with your finger, wait a moment while it considers, and you get a nice textbox with the selectable, translated text, and the OCR'd original language above. It's a practical tool.

My point is not that one is better or worse. Really it is that you cannot consider the tool alone without looking at how it is used in the market it was designed for.

Really the idea that Chinese companies are behind or aren't innovative is ridiculous if you look at how well they are adapting and how quickly they are innovating in the market that exists here.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#639

Post by seppin »

tesseract wrote: post #189
bad_user wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China might build their own products and I can see them building WhatsApp alternatives, but I won't install Chinese alternatives to WhatsApp on my phone, which means the Chinese won't be able to talk with me, an European, all the while I'm communicating without issues with acquaintances from all over Europe and the U.S. This means that the Chinese are living in a bubble. This isn't news of course. But the other issue…

> And their "copy machines" are actually racing against the clock, as more and more factories get fully automated and thus relocated home, not to mention their rising middle class, thus their cheap labor advantage will eventually go away. So when multinational companies will no longer assemble their products in China, what will they copy? There's more to this than just being a provider of manufacturing services for o…

So you believe China can fully exist as a bubble, selling to China, recruiting only Chinese?

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#640

Post by seppin »

turvytopsy wrote: post #628
bad_user wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China might build their own products and I can see them building WhatsApp alternatives, but I won't install Chinese alternatives to WhatsApp on my phone, which means the Chinese won't be able to talk with me, an European, all the while I'm communicating without issues with acquaintances from all over Europe and the U.S. This means that the Chinese are living in a bubble. This isn't news of course. But the other issue…

>> But the other issue is that they can't attract much foreign talent to relocate there, like Europe and the U.S. have historically done. Because they don't have a culture friendly to immigrants, but also because their environment is toxic for those of us that are accustomed to liberal democracies. This is becoming more and more untrue by the day. While Europe and US did historically attract foreign talent, the good…

> This is becoming more and more untrue by the day.

I see no evidence of this. Your evidence is "Chinese isn't so bad" and "what about Trump and anti-refugee trends in Europe?"

Those are social trends, which still exist at the margins of society (more so with Trump, but he still remains a minority figure).

Business, culture, freedom, lack of corruption. Until China matches the west in these points, they will never be a true destination for the world's best and brightest.

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