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China Blocks WhatsApp

nytimes.com

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Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#91

Post by chrischen »

chaostheory wrote: post #40

What the long-term effects will be: China's ruling class further cement their power at the cost of China's innovation and future growth. Interesting and useful things are made when people able share and consume information. e.g. Jack Ma's US visit exposed him to Yahoo. Ma Huateng was clearly inspired by his exposure to ICQ. The list goes on. The same thing happens in the West but it happens a lot more often since the…

They're actually blocking to increase innovation and future growth... of domestic products. Not being subject to a foreign chat app monopoly (although Whatsapp wasn't even close to that) is what they're trying to avoid.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#92

Post by chrischen »

chaostheory wrote: post #80
zitterbewegung wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the blocking of foreign corporations also serves as a way to eliminate competition for services that are created inside the country. Obviously they would be able to pressure the in country services to do whatever they want.

You're right. There's definitely protectionism, but imo moves like limiting VPN's go beyond that.

A lot of people use VPNs to access foreign services. It's quite popular to use Instagram in China, even though it's blocked.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#93

Post by gerbilly »

meri_dian wrote: post #15

Edit: This is not a justification or defense of internet censorship. It is an explanation of why the Chinese public may be more willing to accept strict government controls than the West. While most Westerners see actions like this as serious violations of individual rights, the Chinese are used to such exercises of control by their leaders. There is a firm historical basis for similar behavior going back thousands o…

I know you didn't intend your comment this way, but I see it as a bit patronizing to assume that just because China hasn't produced a Rousseau or a Hobbes domestically[1], that they couldn't possibly take new ideas from them.

Asia is about a lot more than social harmony and the mandate of heaven. There is an incredible diversity of opinion on almost any subject there, just as in the West.

[1] Citation needed.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#94

Post by 627467 »

chaostheory wrote: post #40

What the long-term effects will be: China's ruling class further cement their power at the cost of China's innovation and future growth. Interesting and useful things are made when people able share and consume information. e.g. Jack Ma's US visit exposed him to Yahoo. Ma Huateng was clearly inspired by his exposure to ICQ. The list goes on. The same thing happens in the West but it happens a lot more often since the…

This is not a new situation. I grew up in a more liberal part of China and always thought their political situation was their bottleneck for economic, cultural and human development. The state of the world right now shows how I was wrong.

And as you mentioned, tightening of control by different governments around the world seems to indicate that we have found a common trend and its not the liberal one...

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#97

Post by adventured »

tryingagainbro wrote: post #71
dmix wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's important for Westerners to realize that the Chinese never had a Locke, or a Rousseau, or a Hobbes. Neither did South America but they were inspired by all of them when they formed their modern republics after the various revolutions, after kicking out the Spanish rulers in the 1800s the military generals had a choice to form democracies and they sought inspiration from Europe, just as America did a century ea…

Serious question: what would happen if China abolished the Communist Party or whatever they call and chose democracy. Chaos? Breakdown of the country into separate states /provinces? Civil war? Military rule? I would not want to the one in charge the day after. Obviously (moderated) rule by the people is best but not sure how China and say countries in the mold of Saudi Arabia will handle it.

India with its 1.3 billion people is capable of operating via a Democratic system (with its various issues and flaws not detracting from that fact), and they're even poorer than China and with fewer resources. There's no reason China can't manage a successful (even if messy) transition away from authoritarianism to a variation of representative government.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#98

Post by throwanem »

mtgx wrote: post #39
hellofunk wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious, what is the difference between "Facebook was already blocked" and "Don't even think about Facebook", other than 5 years?

VPNs probably. They've started to crack down on those lately, too. Also, a random tweet I saw today apparently with a recording of China's CCTV surveillance system: https://twitter.com/0XDEDBEEF/status/912026226658652160 No wonder China wants to be #1 in "artificial intelligence". Surveillance and censorship are likely the primary motivators for that.

Wow. That is some Person of Interest-level business right there.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#99

Post by AndrewKemendo »

chaostheory wrote: post #40

What the long-term effects will be: China's ruling class further cement their power at the cost of China's innovation and future growth. Interesting and useful things are made when people able share and consume information. e.g. Jack Ma's US visit exposed him to Yahoo. Ma Huateng was clearly inspired by his exposure to ICQ. The list goes on. The same thing happens in the West but it happens a lot more often since the…

Completely agree that they will further cement their power, but it won't be at the cost of innovation and growth IMO.

China's access to leading technologies and technologists is absolutely unparalleled. The amount of Chinese students that are publishing some of the leading CS and ML research from the best universities and corporations worldwide is staggering when compared to all other nations.

China isn't 'Closing up' they are pushing people to use the services that they control and have insight into. Consider that Tencent, Baidu etc... all have major offices in SV, Seattle, LA etc. Remember the story from yesterday about the Chinese ADTech company giving $3M salaries? That's just growing.

Unless the US, Canada, France, Israel etc... closes the visa program for Chinese workers Chinese companies will continue to be relevant and innovative - and they will likely grow faster with more tailored services because, China has the biggest capabilities to mine user data - more than any other nation by far.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#100

Post by logfromblammo »

dominotw wrote: post #44

does this kind of thing violate any trade agreements between US and china? should it?

To my knowledge it does not, but it should.

Censorship is a weak attempt at mind control, which is a bit worse than chattel slavery on the list of heinous things that humans do to one another.

Not only that, but in order to implement it effectively, you must be omnipresent, with a finger in every ear and a hand over every mouth. The concentration of power necessary to do that is an open invitation to corruption.

If I had significant influence over US trade agreements, the degree to which ordinary citizens had open and unfettered access to information would factor into every last one of them.

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