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Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

nytimes.com

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Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#621

Post by rauljordan2020 »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #199
mrtksn wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The action by itself comes as a punishment which imply that this is indeed great resource but because Harvard was a naughty boy means that can't have it. I want to note that when Brexit happened EU citizens had about 2 years period to move to UK and just like that get their full rights there and those with enough years of stay had the right to obtain British citizenship. Streamlined process through scanning your id u…

> I bet you, if this continues for some more time USA will no longer receive the best and the brightest. International students are heavily selected for wealth rather than brightness.

Nope! Harvard and some of the top ivies offer full, need-blind financial aid to all students, especially international. I attended and did not have to spend much at all, coming from a poor country. Many such cases and it is a lifeline for gifted students in developing countries

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#622

Post by anigbrowl »

zombiwoof wrote: post #158
archagon wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Project 2025 people and the Yarvinists agree that elite universities like Harvard are spreading the “woke mind virus” and must be destroyed. They consider their movements a revolution, not an iteration on the status quo.

Project 2025 is about uneducated people now having power and trying to stop other people from becoming educated

I think the people who work at the Heritage foundation are very well educated, they're just also very cynical.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#623

Post by firesteelrain »

NoImmatureAdHom wrote: post #505
NoImmatureAdHom wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people associated with the University are pretty happy about it getting smacked down. Shameless, wrong, and overtly illegal discrimination on the basis of race, sex, and creed, suppression of free speech, even the compelling of speech have all been de rigeur for Harvard for the past decade. I just wish they would use a scalpel rather than a sledge hammer.

[flagged]

On HN they eschew talking about downvotes, friend.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#624

Post by paulryanrogers »

scrubs wrote: post #580
0x5f3759df-i wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’d probably try to be more subtle about it.

Whence the salient and more pressing question: why does the gop in the legislative branch take a zero? We've all had bad bosses ... and that's a problem, but it's 10x worse when the people around know better and do nothing.

They're afraid of losing to a primary challenger if they break with Trump. It used to be a Trump endorsement would hurt your campaign. Now a Trump critique is believed to be a scarlet letter. He's got a lock on the racist zealots that make up the most consistent voting bloc in the GOP.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#625

Post by alephnerd »

ajross wrote: post #325
alephnerd wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a severely disillusioned alum of a couple of the campus orgs really driving some of this. > Surely there are existing institutions of some form or another you'd like to see not made enemies of the state. You don't maybe see a principle at work here beyond your personal dislike of academia Hold up - I'm massively pro-academic freedom and autonomy. I'm just pointing out that there's a fight happening behind this fi…

> Hold up - I'm massively pro-academic freedom and autonomy. Then maybe you'd like to rephrase your upthread comment which seems very comfortable with a clear and obvious attack on academic freedom and autonomy? > You don't understand unless you actually attended Harvard. Class of '96. But really I don't see how that's relevant in the face of the current crisis. I can say with 100% sincerity that'd I'd feel the same…

> Then maybe you'd like to rephrase your upthread comment which seems very comfortable with a clear and obvious attack on academic freedom and autonomy?

On it! I agree with you 100% - it's horrid.

> But really I don't see how that's relevant in the face of the current crisis

There are some interpersonal relations and egos that got mixed into this, along with a very cynical anti-establishment play. It takes a couple bad apples to spoil the batch, and that's what it feels like has happened. I was a Gov secondary during the Obama years so I bumped into a lot of the people who ended up on either side of the political and cultural divide. I feel digging into that helps explain how this has really snowballed. It's been a rolling crisis for a couple years now.

> It's. Awful. And it's not made less so because some of the students are Zionists, or Palestinian Sympathizers, or Vegan, or whatever it is you're upset about

I agree, but ignoring some of the ego and personal clashes that has caused this crisis means you lose the bigger picture.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#626

Post by monkaiju »

judah wrote: post #598
neuroelectron wrote: post #572

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

On the contrary, the issue is that Harvard allowed pro-Hamas students to attack and persecute Jewish students. Harvard failed to protect the Jewish students, even rewarded those students who intimidated Jewish students on campus. Pro-Hamas students barged into classrooms with bullhorns. Camped out on campus and prevented Jewish students from reaching their classrooms, forming lines and locking hands outside of classr…

[flagged]

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#627

Post by CamperBob2 »

input_sh wrote: post #586
miffy900 wrote: post #563

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the wikipedia article: > Curtis Yarvin began constructing the basis of the ideology in the late 2000 Ah yes of course this dude is involved. The more I read about Curtis Y, the more I believe he suffers from some sort of undiagnosed mental illness.

No work of fiction prepared me for the most influential "intellectual" to be a dude with a Substack blog that acts as a how-to guide on how to overturn a democracy, which is then followed by the most powerful country in the world a full election cycle after it started being written.

At this point, if it turns out Yarvin's real name is Randall Flagg, I wouldn't even blink.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#628

Post by Aeolun »

judah wrote: post #598
neuroelectron wrote: post #572

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

On the contrary, the issue is that Harvard allowed pro-Hamas students to attack and persecute Jewish students. Harvard failed to protect the Jewish students, even rewarded those students who intimidated Jewish students on campus. Pro-Hamas students barged into classrooms with bullhorns. Camped out on campus and prevented Jewish students from reaching their classrooms, forming lines and locking hands outside of classr…

> on American campuses

Emphasis mine. Clearly it’s fine and dandy to fund it when off american campuses.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#629

Post by jostmey »

neilv wrote: post #89

Can someone ELI5 the power networks involved here? I didn't expect to see Harvard getting smacked around or humiliated like this. Between Harvard, Yale, and possibly a few other schools, I thought they had influence throughout government. And that key figures in government were interested in maintaining and benefiting from that influence. And a lot of that influence seemed aligned with national interests. (For exampl…

For every person that went through these elite schools, they must have rejected five or more other people. These schools pride themselves on turning people away. Perhaps, they have far more enemies than friends, explaining their seeming lack of influence in this situation

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#630

Post by dmvdoug »

firesteelrain wrote: post #543
dmvdoug wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The actual statute provides the categories of information schools must provide about their students. It’s not a “whatever we happen to ask for” list. See 8 U.S.C. § 1372. Needless to say, “protest activity” is not included.

We do not know yet what Harvard did and did not respond to. All we have is their word. If they didn’t provide what was required after DHS demanded what was legally required to be provided then DHS is on solid legal ground. I can’t really defend not providing something that isn’t called out as part of the law though

No, we gave the SEVIS revocation letter demanding a handful of categories of information, one of which is “protest activity.” And they are already required under the statute to provide one category of information requested: “any disciplinary action taken by the institution against the alien as a result of the alien’s being convicted of a crime or, in the case of a participant in a designated exchange visitor program, any change in the alien’s participation as a result of the alien’s being convicted of a crime.”

My main point, though, was this: (1) the information required to maintain SEVIS program is statutorily defined, so the government doesn’t get to arbitrarily expand that and then punish a school for noncompliance; and (2) we know of at least one category requested information that they are not allowed to ask for and that implicates nothing other than the exercise of a student’s First Amendment rights.

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