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FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

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Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#621

Post by chitowneats »

dfxm12 wrote: post #609
chitowneats wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, happy to elaborate. The best example of this is my niece who is a nurse in NYC. She cannot participate at all in city life after the mandate and will soon lose her job over it this Fall. She's very seriously considering leaving the city and her profession entirely. Those who feel that when push comes to shove, people will just get vaxxed, are in for a rude awakening. I understand that you believe that unvaxxed…

She cannot participate at all in city life after the mandate and will soon lose her job over it this Fall. I do believe the carrot works better than the stick, but I don't think this goes as far as being "treated like a threat". I understand that you believe that unvaxxed are where the mutations happen. I didn't say this and this is not my full belief :( . Mutations can happen at any new infection (including breakthr…

Why would she be forced to take the injection if she's not a threat? They're destroying her professional and personal life over her refusal. She better be considered a threat for this to be at all rational or ethical.

I will continue to disagree with your one size fits all prescription. It would be trivial to allow an antibody test in lieu of vaccination.

Responding to your edit: I already answered the original question. Allow an antibody test to prove immunity. Stop demanding vax as if it's the only way to acquire immunity.

It's quite funny to me how presumptuous covid vaxx advocates are. They seem to be saying, "you're going to have to relent eventually. What do I need to say to speed that up?". As if there aren't people who will listen to what they have to say yet continue to refuse and have perfectly valid reasons to do so.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#622

Post by RcouF1uZ4gsC »

albatross13 wrote: post #430
acdha wrote: post #6

I’m wondering what the odds are that people will pivot from “it’s experimental” to “it was rushed due to politics/greed”. I think a huge factor will be how many employers, colleges, etc. are now willing and legally able to require vaccination. It’s one thing to say you trust something you read on Facebook more than your doctor and quite another to walk away from a job because of it.

I'm already triple vaxxed (booster), but there are plenty of aspects to this that help drive people's fear: - Phase 3 trials for Pfizer not complete until May 2023: ( https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04368728 ) - Control group(s) were given vaccines after 14 days: ( https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/02/19/9691430... ) - Pfizer generates 1.9bn in revenue off of 100m doses, just in the USA alone, cre…

With regards to control, it would have been highly unethical to withhold the vaccine from them once it had been shown to save lives.

Second, Pfizer’s vaccines in terms of value produced are worth trillions. Even making $10 billion is completely worth it.

In terms of what we as a society should value and pay for, I would rather us pay a lot of money to Pfizer to develop life saving vaccines than 100’s of billions for ads or weapons.

I actually would like for Pfizer to have made even more money than they are making now.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#623

Post by joefife »

A large number of those objecting to the vaccine have serious needle phobia and don't wish to admit this publicly.

The most common presentation is mild anxiety, but in more serious instances, a needle phobic person may pass out or be genuinely convinced they are having a cardiac arrest.

There are alternative delivery methods being tested, such as by Pharmajet.

I suspect that when needle phobia is addressed in a less hostile light, you may find an increase in uptake.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#624

Post by specto »

peakaboo wrote: post #94
cbg0 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More likely than not, they'll just move the goalposts farther and find a different excuse for not getting it.

Even if true, so what? It's their bodies. They should be allowed to choose, just like you are.

Yep just like I was required to get vaccines to go to school when I was younger and so was everyone else.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#625

Post by bratcomplex »

ramesh31 wrote: post #501
CogitoCogito wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has emergency approval. The CDC decided the result of waiting for a full approval would likely cost more than allowing it early. Also to be fair it's not like they just rushed it out the door. There are probably very few things on the market (short of fully approved pharmaceuticals) that have been through more testing than these "rushed" vaccines. edit: https://www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-biologics/vaccines/emerge.…

A great point. The same people decrying a vaccine that has been safely administered to nearly a billion people at this point and extensively studied will be the first ones to try all sorts of untested homeopathic and "alternative" nonsense.

This this a Bifurcation of the issue. lumping people whom; have a cation bias, are alt medicine nuts, classic anti vaxers, etc, together shuts down discourse and divides people.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#626

Post by mike00632 »

criticaltinker wrote: post #596
DangerousPie wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only reason there is fear is because people keep posting stories like these without putting them into context. It has been clear for a while now that the Pfizer vaccine works and is safe. Just because Pfizer has chosen to keep collecting data doesn't make that there is any doubt about that. This is also why control groups have been given the option to get vaccinated too. It would be highly questionable to prevent…

> the Pfizer vaccine works and is safe Yes the vaccine has been proven to be safe for most adults in the short-term. But blanket statements like this over-simplify the reality of the situation. People need to be aware that for certain sub-populations (eg pediatrics & pregnant women), there is insufficient scientific evidence - in terms of clinical trials and longitudinal studies - to conclude that the benefits of vac…

1. If "long term" is a matter of years, then yes, the vaccines have been shown to be safe long term.

2. New data shows that the vaccine is indeed safe for pregnant women and it's not recommended that everyone 12 and older get a vaccine.

https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0811-vaccine-safe-p...

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#627

Post by jboggan »

pgalvin wrote: post #558
jboggan wrote: post #526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It has been clear for a while now that the Pfizer vaccine works and is safe." Yes, except there is an established process for quantifying "clear for a while now" and it involves sufficient time and control groups. That process isn't being followed and it is concerning for a number of reasons, including the effect of political pressure on expedited drug approvals in the future now that this precedent is being set. Th…

This really, really is not true. Many drug and vaccine approvals in the past have been done before the trial has run its full course. Many drug and vaccine trials have given the placebo group the real drug once safety and efficacy is clear - before the end of the trial. This is not new, and frankly I’m a little surprised to see such conspiracy theories on HN.

I would like to see an example of previous trials where the placebo group was invalidated prematurely by informing them and giving them the actual drug. If this is common practice I'm not aware of it.

Note the date on this article - this was back in February of this year: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/02/19/9691430...

Don't denigrate a perfectly valid criticism of deviations from historical norms of drug validation and approval by calling it a "conspiracy theory".

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#628

Post by tw04 »

xdennis wrote: post #589
michaelbuckbee wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recent came across a technique for having a more substantial discussion and it was to ask: "Well, what would it take for you to change your mind?" Not that this is a silver bullet that automatically leads to peace and harmony, but it's a step in the right direction.

> Well, what would it take for you to change your mind? A lot of things, but just the top two would be enough: 1) Being able to sue. If you can sue J&J for baby powder, should be able to sue Pfizer for vaccines if anything goes wrong. 2) Falsifiability in government actions. Many rights have been taken away (some permanently) by saying "we just need to do this and then it will all be over" like "a few weeks to flatte…

You're on a site centered around technology and don't seem to acknowledge the scientific process...

You cannot, with 100% accuracy, model a virus that is mutating in a population that includes the entire planet. We have things we know worked in the past, we try them, and we then modify our next move based on the results. We don't say "well we got that one wrong so now we're just not going to try anything". If every scientist took the approach you're suggesting we'd still be eating raw meat and living in caves.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#629

Post by Avenger42 »

psychedelican wrote: post #557
zeku wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those aren't equivalent. Preventing obesity is *very* hard, or we wouldn't have obese people. Who actually WANTS to be obese? Preventing your ICU trip due to covid is as easy as driving to the pharmacy once or twice and spending 20minutes there. It's easier than grocery shopping.

But you're forgetting that currently these vaccines are not really doing a great job at decreasing hospitalizations in at-risk populations. Look at Israel. Thanks.

By "look at Israel", are you referring to this claim debunked by the AP?

https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-644288348135

> CLAIM: The newest Israeli data on COVID-19 infections indicate a complete vaccine failure on every level. The data from Israel shows that nearly all serious cases and deaths are among the vaccinated.

> AP’S ASSESSMENT: Missing context. The claim ignores the fact that Israel has only a fraction of the COVID-19 cases that it had in January, before vaccines were widespread. Furthermore, the majority of adults in Israel are now vaccinated with two Pfizer shots. No vaccine is perfect at preventing breakthrough cases, but the data shows vaccines are reducing the number of people who are severely ill, hospitalized or die from the virus.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#630

Post by zuminator »

notheretoo wrote: post #574
pgalvin wrote: post #558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This really, really is not true. Many drug and vaccine approvals in the past have been done before the trial has run its full course. Many drug and vaccine trials have given the placebo group the real drug once safety and efficacy is clear - before the end of the trial. This is not new, and frankly I’m a little surprised to see such conspiracy theories on HN.

Can you prove your statement by providing an example please?

Remdesivir [0], for one, which received Fast Track and Priority Review designation from the FDA. It was also noted in a 2019 Wall Street Journal article [1] that the majority of new drug approvals are now done through a Fast Track process.

[0] https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-appr...

[1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/fast-track-drug-approval-design...

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