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Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging sabotage' by employee

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Re: Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging sabotage' by employee

#621
post #618

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they are selling very well! If you want something computer-related, Windows is clearly the greatest, bestest OS of all times. Electronics? Bose must sound really well. Etc., etc.

Come on, that is not what I mean. Is there anything you like and appreciate?

Lots of things, it's just Apple (or Tesla) do not happen to be among them, I want something that actually has real advantages/benefits.

Re: Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging sabotage' by employee

#622
post #621

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on, that is not what I mean. Is there anything you like and appreciate?

Lots of things, it's just Apple (or Tesla) do not happen to be among them, I want something that actually has real advantages/benefits.

List em. I want to see what your standards are.

Re: Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging sabotage' by employee

#623

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> major violation > deep trouble Serious: no they wouldn't. Their auditor would report the compliance failure and say, try harder next year ok! Real: ah hah hahah hhaaaah hahahah ha lolll

Won't they need report the failure of controls to the SEC?

> Their auditor would report the compliance failure

You have to fail multiple times, hard, before anyone gives a shit

Re: Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging sabotage' by employee

#624
post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And, of course, BMW and Mercedes are simply incapable of competing with Tesla on quality engineering and streamlined manufacturing processes, so the only option they have left is sabotage. It is very hard to connect electric motors to laptop battery packs and to replace the dashboard with an android tablet.

Wouldn’t you say this is a little glib? Nissan’s LEAF famously struggled with battery degradation over time. You can shade Tesla’s execution/financial performance/etc., but the battery technology improvements they’ve made are real. They’re going to be the first battery manufacturer to deliver costs of lower than $100/kWh, not to mention effectively doubling global production of lithium ion batteries. A BMW is my most…

I agree that was glib, but some of the statements made by Tesla fans (speaking as a former somewhat Tesla fan myself) are just asking for it. — I don't want to dismiss Tesla, they did achieve a lot. However, it would be a mistake to think that there's some technological breakthrough that they possess that makes them unbeatable or even the most likely winner in the upcoming electric car competition.

Among the reasons why, I would say there are many — engineering culture (and part of that is quality control and standards), haphazard management, brain leak (because of the competition poaching employees, unclear financials, and the management), financials (not making a profit and burning through money like crazy), dismissive approach to the competition and other company's engineering efforts and solutions (stupid robots everywhere, autopilot with the freaking webcams, when everyone said it's a bad idea).

I think the reason why we see that BMW, Mercedes, Audi and others are not building the electric cars with the same favorable characteristics as Tesla, and without similar fanfare, is because they have a bottom line that they'd like to stay in the black.

They have to know that electric car market is a very small niche right now, and they are letting Tesla to be the one who makes customers intrigued and creates some pressure for bringing up at least a little bit of infrastructure for the charging.

Imagine the daily commute in the big city, how many cars are driving through the main city artery? How many cars are pumping gas in any given 30 minutes? How many supercharger stations are needed to accommodate for this? I think you can create a societal collapse right now if 5% of the drives in US would switch to electric cars. People wouldn't find a place to charge their car, electric grid would become unstable and overloaded from all these people who hooked up Tesla to their 200 amp residential fuse box, while having dishwasher, washing maching, drier, TVs, computers and a ton of lights running. For fun, you can also imagine superchargers with enormous lines, with people reserving spots and selling them to those who are in a rush.

I'm sure that the blunt of BMW's and alikes engineering resources are spent right now in different areas, because they just can't afford building this perfect electric car which only 1% of their customers would want to buy. That's how you get bankrupt. Remember Apple Newton?

Re: Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging sabotage' by employee

#625
post #621

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of things, it's just Apple (or Tesla) do not happen to be among them, I want something that actually has real advantages/benefits.

List em. I want to see what your standards are.

For which ones? Like smartphones I can install any software I want on, or cars that do not actively try to kill me? Or we could just settle on a car that has build standard slightly higher than a used Yugo (although Tesla might need to stretch quite a bit to rise to Yugo quality level)?

Re: Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging sabotage' by employee

#626

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree information overload is a huge problem these days. I'd be curious for a list of the professions you had in mind (perhaps you mean librarians http://disciplineoforganizing.org/ or professionals working in the "Seven Tribes" of Intelligence https://phibetaiota.net/about/ or like Doug Engelbart worked towards with Augment/CoDIAK/OHS http://www.dougengelbart.org/about/vision-highlights.html )? Maybe Musk does nee…

Thanks for the links. Needs to be reposted often. Hopefully the day will come where we don't have to become grad level psycologists to handle our new info environment. The professions I was thinking about were air traffic controllers, soldiers, pilots, cops etc whose training involves coping with constant high noise environments. We have lot of lessons to learn from them and their training systems. I have a feeling p…

Thanks for the reply and the list of professions -- make sense.

Although at least for police, there are some issues of their typical training creating excessive false positives when interrogating suspects -- as discussed in a chapter of this book: "Mistakes Were Made (But Not by Me): Why We Justify Foolish Beliefs, Bad Decisions, and Hurtful Acts -- 2007 -- by Carol Tavris and Elliot Aronson" https://www.amazon.com/Mistakes-Were-Made-But-Not/dp/0151010...

Musk is apparently interested in dealing with information overload of questionable media with his new crowd-sourced "Pravduh" idea -- so we'll see how that effort pans out. https://fair.org/home/elon-musks-latest-brainstorm-takes-aim...

Some more criticism of that is here: https://quillette.com/2018/06/04/the-trouble-with-technocrac... "For a consumer-run media to work, mass participation is necessary. This isn’t unfeasible with the internet being so widely available. However, the quality of that participation is also important. If just anyone—troublemaker or pure hearted—can rate the news and influence the opinions of other readers, the problem of fake news is only likely to be exacerbated. Truth is not defined through consensus. There is an abundance of examples of popular opinion being incorrect. And personal biases will certainly decide how people rate what they read. Disagree with the conclusion of an article? Downvote. Didn’t read the whole article but were offended by a particular line? Downvote. Already hate Fox News? Downvote. A culture which decides truth by way of numbers is flawed. Not everyone, and perhaps no-one, is capable of setting aside their political prejudices to make an informed critical decision on a piece of political writing. Perhaps the more polarizing and obvious forms of fake media will be suppressed by Pravda, but at what cost? ... Pravda assumes the role of government in the age of totalitarianism—control over the media. Those who administer the website will have to decide which ratings are worthwhile and which are useless. But who will these regulators be? ..."

It's a tough challenge. And one that will likely be solved by some mix of meshwork, hierarchy, and interfaces (see Manuela De Landa) as I mention here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17366004

Robert Steele, ex-CIA Analyst and champion of "Open Source Intelligence" also has a lot to say on the general issue across what he calls "the seven tribes of intelligence": https://phibetaiota.net/about/ "This site does NOT advocate political action or any specific policy, but rather seeks to empower the public with sources and methods of what has been called in modern times Open Source Intelligence (OSINT), so that our Collective Intelligence can be applied with structured ethical diligence to produce public wisdom in the public interest. This is the heart of what is called Reflexive Practice–Professional Thinking for a Turbulent World. Since the new book, THE OPEN SOURCE EVERYTHING MANIFESTO: Transparency, Truth, & Trust was published in 2012, we have morphed into being a proponent for Open Source Everything combined with True Cost Economics and Holistic Analytics. The PUBLIC is the political body–this site seeks to serve the public by nurturing public intelligence in the public interest. We intend to help the public to eliminate information asymmetries and data pathologies, and end the rule of secrecy. We support the Collective Intelligence of the public in such as way as to create a direct democracy, collaborative economics, and a prosperous world at peace."

Re: Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging sabotage' by employee

#627
post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn’t you say this is a little glib? Nissan’s LEAF famously struggled with battery degradation over time. You can shade Tesla’s execution/financial performance/etc., but the battery technology improvements they’ve made are real. They’re going to be the first battery manufacturer to deliver costs of lower than $100/kWh, not to mention effectively doubling global production of lithium ion batteries. A BMW is my most…

I agree that was glib, but some of the statements made by Tesla fans (speaking as a former somewhat Tesla fan myself) are just asking for it. — I don't want to dismiss Tesla, they did achieve a lot. However, it would be a mistake to think that there's some technological breakthrough that they possess that makes them unbeatable or even the most likely winner in the upcoming electric car competition. Among the reasons…

It could certainly be that the German automakers are more concerned about present profitability. That could easily turn into falling victim to the classic innovator's dilemma. It seems that by year end, both the Model S and Model 3 will have taken significant market share from their European competitors: http://europe.autonews.com/article/20180220/ANE/180219831/te.... The cannibalization is real, and that's why luxury automakers like BMW have announced plans for 12 fully-electric models by 2025 (https://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive/news/industry-ne...).

Your points about electrical infrastructure are definitely thought-provoking ones. I'd agree that the infrastructure as of today doesn't exist for widespread adoption. At the same time, the market that Tesla and the luxury European automakers compete for today doesn't hit that 5% threshold (http://www.wsj.com/mdc/public/page/2_3022-autosales.html#aut...). Add up the market share of car (not truck) sales from BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Porsche, and you're looking at a ~3% market share.

I think this section of the video from Sandy Munro is worth a watch: https://youtu.be/CpCrkO1x-Qo?t=1730. Munro has been a huge critic of the build quality of the Model 3, but that everything "below the skateboard [the floor]" is seriously impressive. The cells in Tesla's battery pack have a maximum of a 0.2 milliamp difference between cells.

Say that I accept your premise that the German automakers today are biding their time, and could spend their R&D money on electric cars if they so chose. Who will they source their battery packs from? Will they try to build their own supply chain for the raw materials? What competence have they demonstrated in creating electric powertrains that deliver the acceleration and speed that we expect from luxury cars?

Lastly, I think your "market size estimation" here is dramatically off. BMW last year delivered 2.4 million total cars. They sold 103k "electric" vehicles last year, with 31k of the i3, and the rest probably being comprised of hybrid versions of their existing 3 and 5 series sedans. (https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/latin-america-caribbean/artic...) This was 65.6% year over year growth. For 2018, they expect "high two-digit growth" to continue. The demand is there, even from their own existing customers.

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