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Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

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Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#621

Post by freehunter »

megy wrote: post #610
apetrovic wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's two problems with that story: first, the famous switch from PowerPC to Intel happened when the desktop was the king, and app developers had strong incentive to recompile programs to the new platform. Right now? Not so much. Second, while Apple's mobile processors are currently the best in ARM world, for "pro" desktop computers Apple needs desktop-grade processor. Making something comparable to i7 isn't such a…

>Second, while Apple's mobile processors are currently the best in ARM world, for "pro" desktop computers Apple needs desktop-grade processor. Making something comparable to i7 isn't such an easy and cheap job. Good point, I guess Apple never though of that.

It's quite impressive how many people in the comments can so easily come up with big show-stoppers that Apple never thought about. Must be why Apple is struggling financially and can't get anyone to buy their products.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#622

Post by matwood »

Stranger43 wrote: post #213

Have anyone checked with adobe and autodesk if this essentially kills the professional mac workstation as a viable product going forward? I have no doubt they can make it fast and usable enough for the naive consumer living inside the bubble of what relatively inexpensive(consumer grade) app-store apps can do and that microsoft will release something pretending to be MS office for a new ARM macbook line, but photosho…

Interesting question. I think the advantage Apple has here over MS, is that partners like Adobe already have experience making apps run on Apple's ARM chips. Lightroom on iOS is surprisingly full featured and fast.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#623

Post by therealmarv »

radarsat1 wrote: post #613
therealmarv wrote: post #600

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really dislike the argument for recompiling a whole Kernel to getting something to run is a good thing... I would even say it's very good that Windows and Mac don't need a whole Kernel recompilation for devices... just because Linux has this design for their hardware stack does not make it a good choice. Ever wanted to get custom hardware drivers working in Linux... it's insane and complicated you need to recompile…

> I really dislike the argument for recompiling a whole Kernel to getting something to run is a good thing... I haven't had to do that in years . On the other hand, knowing that I could gives me peace of mind.

Me neither. Just wanted to say that other choices have also benefits. It's not "Linux is always superior" in every regard.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#624

Post by bwat49 »

freehunter wrote: post #612
blacklight wrote: post #560

I personally hate close fences with no rooms for customization, and many computer scientists are on the same wavelength. Windows is an awful choice for software development, a job that usually requires a lot of interaction with Unix servers. Microsoft's recent crush for Linux and open source can't fix many years of closed standards, closed protocols, and Embrace-Extend-Exterminate evil culture. And MacOS, even though…

Here's the problem with saying "this is better for computer scientists": It's the same argument every time someone says "the Macbook Pro is not a professional device". Not every computer scientist has the same needs. There are a lot of CS folks who will never need to recompile a kernel or even get into the OS internals. For those people, having to do that is a major downside to any computer. So the obvious choice is…

> and it's not going to work if I'm copying and pasting kernel code from Stack Overflow to get my trackpad to scroll the correct direction

When was the last time you used a linux desktop, 2005? On any linux desktop I can think of (MATE, Gnome, KDE) this is a matter of going to Settings | Mouse & Touchpad | check or un-check the natural scrolling box as desired

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#625

Post by JasonFruit »

KajMagnus wrote: post #557
davidy123 wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't easily share media between the Apple ecosystem and others. You can't access some Apple services at all from Linux. There's no way to run userscripts/WebExtensions on IOS. Your device is no longer a user-focused tool to access media, your browser is closer to being a "smart tv" than a customize-able information explorer and augmenter essentially controlled by no one. You're giving up an awful lot for the sak…

> what's missing from a modern Linux desktop Networking, printer stuff, graphics stuff that works immediately after installation, without one having to search for various problems & fixes on the Internet. And that doesn't randomly break after kernel upgrades. Because of running into networking & graphics driver problems every now and then (and having to revert to older kernel versions), and problems with printers & d…

I have used Debian almost exclusively for ten years, not counting the last couple months where I've been doing Windows 10 for some contract work. I can't remember the last time I ran into problems with networking, printer setup, or really anything except suspend/hibernation, barring one astonishingly cheap ($168 at Walmart) machine that had a weird integrated Bluetooth/wireless/something else card without a free driver.

That being said, Windows 10 is great for regular-user stuff --- really great, in fact. It's only for development that it's sometimes a little awkward, and it's really not bad. If I were working with .NET/MSSQL/IS more, I'd love it: Visual Studio is a nearly perfect IDE on a powerful machine. Debian is still better for me, though.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#626

Post by scarface74 »

blacklight wrote: post #560

I personally hate close fences with no rooms for customization, and many computer scientists are on the same wavelength. Windows is an awful choice for software development, a job that usually requires a lot of interaction with Unix servers. Microsoft's recent crush for Linux and open source can't fix many years of closed standards, closed protocols, and Embrace-Extend-Exterminate evil culture. And MacOS, even though…

MacOS is "real Unix". It's been certified as Unix since they moved to Intel by the Open Group.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#627

Post by megy »

drham wrote: post #299
Bud wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not "likely" at all. Apple's CPUs are already faster in single-core benchmarks than the Intel competition, even though the Apple processors in question are designed for mobile devices and have much less power to work with. Apple would not be making this switch if they didn't think they could improve performance.

Faster, probably, but 2x+ Faster like in PowerPC > Intel very unlikely. Which is why there’s much less likely to be enough performance budget for effective emulation.

Do you think they will use the same chip? In 2020?

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#628

Post by freehunter »

bwat49 wrote: post #624
freehunter wrote: post #612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the problem with saying "this is better for computer scientists": It's the same argument every time someone says "the Macbook Pro is not a professional device". Not every computer scientist has the same needs. There are a lot of CS folks who will never need to recompile a kernel or even get into the OS internals. For those people, having to do that is a major downside to any computer. So the obvious choice is…

> and it's not going to work if I'm copying and pasting kernel code from Stack Overflow to get my trackpad to scroll the correct direction When was the last time you used a linux desktop, 2005? On any linux desktop I can think of (MATE, Gnome, KDE) this is a matter of going to Settings | Mouse & Touchpad | check or un-check the natural scrolling box as desired

Yeah that was not the point at all, but thanks for refuting it anyway.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#629

Post by nyrikki »

obmelvin wrote: post #532
bb88 wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My only complaint is that if the mac were truly a developer-centric device, I wouldn't need homebrew to install software. It should just be in the apple store for me to download.

I could see an argument that Apple should make a tool like Homebrew themselves or official support Homebrew development (maybe they do, haven't looked), but including it in the app store would just be confusing. Plus, I can type 'brew install ' far faster than I could type into the search bar and make the necessary clicks to install.

Apple will never distribute gpl v3 software, this is the reason bash is ancient on mac and why samba is gone.

Any license with a Patent clause or Tivoization clause will be verboden. As an example you will never get something that depends on Postgres in the Apple store.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#630

Post by merb »

freehunter wrote: post #612
blacklight wrote: post #560

I personally hate close fences with no rooms for customization, and many computer scientists are on the same wavelength. Windows is an awful choice for software development, a job that usually requires a lot of interaction with Unix servers. Microsoft's recent crush for Linux and open source can't fix many years of closed standards, closed protocols, and Embrace-Extend-Exterminate evil culture. And MacOS, even though…

Here's the problem with saying "this is better for computer scientists": It's the same argument every time someone says "the Macbook Pro is not a professional device". Not every computer scientist has the same needs. There are a lot of CS folks who will never need to recompile a kernel or even get into the OS internals. For those people, having to do that is a major downside to any computer. So the obvious choice is…

the biggest problem with macs is not the software/openness. the biggest problem is the price. the older models might have had a justifiable price, however the new 15" models with a touch-whatever, costs way more and have less value. they actually even replaced the SD slot, which probably a lot of professional artists needed (or at least used). I used it to extend my harddrive with a 256gb extension card If I would need a new model (replacement for my pro late 13 model I would need to pay 1000 € more than for the late 13 (I need more harddisk space since 512gb wouldn't be enough and the sd card upgrade is insane.) even worse the late 13 had a 512gb sd, the new model costs 500€ more and has a 256gb sd card. just insane. dell sells me a precision with a dock more memory (32gb or 64gb) and the best processor that could be in a mac + 1tb ssd for the same amount than the cheapest new mac book pro. (it has ubuntu 16.04 preinstalled.)
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