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China Blocks WhatsApp

nytimes.com

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Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#621

Post by chaostheory »

samfisher83 wrote: post #568
chaostheory wrote: post #40

What the long-term effects will be: China's ruling class further cement their power at the cost of China's innovation and future growth. Interesting and useful things are made when people able share and consume information. e.g. Jack Ma's US visit exposed him to Yahoo. Ma Huateng was clearly inspired by his exposure to ICQ. The list goes on. The same thing happens in the West but it happens a lot more often since the…

China has gone from basically poverty to the second largest economy in the world in roughly 25 years. You have to give them a little credit for doing something right. As long as people have food to eat and people 's lives are getting better they will put up with government. Once that stops happening problems will start happening. Are there negatives? Yes. Lack of freedom. Corruption. At the same time people are able…

To clear things up, my comment has nothing to do the accomplishments of Zhou Enlai and Deng Xiaoping. It's not a criticism of China as a whole, it's just criticism of the policies of the current CCP faction in power, which will likely erase some of the gains that you mention in the long run. The difference between back then and today is that in the past China couldn't always enforce dumb laws. Now they can.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#622

Post by IncRnd »

chaostheory wrote: post #619
IncRnd wrote: post #581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You assume facts not in evidence and write as if your biases are evident as the truth. China has a history of blocking outside influence in order to control the populace, so fear of competition with apps may not be the motivation.

Chinese protectionism isn't new and it isn't limited to apps. There's been more than enough written on the subject.

This article is about an app being blocked in China through protectionism.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#623

Post by chaostheory »

IncRnd wrote: post #622
chaostheory wrote: post #619

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chinese protectionism isn't new and it isn't limited to apps. There's been more than enough written on the subject.

This article is about an app being blocked in China through protectionism.

Is there any reason why my arguments should be limited to 1 article even though it's still on the same subject?

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#624

Post by int_19h »

barrkel wrote: post #530
int_19h wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conversely, there are plenty of democratic liberal regimes that turn up to be kleptocratic - just look at Brazil as one recent example. It's also not clear whether kleptocracy can't be implemented in a way such that it's not a significant detriment to development. Singapore is arguably a kleptocracy, but it's a surprisingly well-managed one.

There's long been a hope that integration into the wider economy prevents war - the idea being that countries that trade deeply won't fight each other. The same logic seems to support the idea that trade can also act as a brake on kleptocracy - since stealing would mean harming foreign investment, damaging the goose that lays the golden eggs. But I think it's mostly a matter of time and happiness of the population. W…

> There's long been a hope that integration into the wider economy prevents war - the idea being that countries that trade deeply won't fight each other.

There was a guy by the name of Norman Angell, who wrote a book called "The Great Illusion" about that exact thing. The premise, to quote Wikipedia, was that "the economic cost of war was so great that no one could possibly hope to gain by starting a war the consequences of which would be so disastrous", on the basis of considerable economic interdependence of major powers.

The book was published in 1909.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#625

Post by rorykoehler »

vixen99 wrote: post #600
rorykoehler wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chinese have no problem sharing. If you've used wechat you'll know it's western tech that has fallen behind.

Wiki says (though who wrote it?) 'It (wechat) is widely known as one of the world's most innovative and versatile app, as well as China's "App For Everything", with numerous unique functions and platforms ranging from 'payment' to 'social media' to 'services' to 'shopping' and more, that are equivalent to multiple Google Play or App Store's apps, but merged into one. Is it that impressive vis a vis Western Tech?

Yes. Look at the iPhone for example. All the tech existed before but not in one package. WeChat is the future. Even Facebook are scrambling to copy features now.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#626

Post by ernst_klim »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #595
ernst_klim wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>we overthrew several governments on their borders and replaced them with pro-Western Dunno if you are trolling, but that's impossible. You can't just overthrow the government if people don't want it. And supporting the revolution is absolutely normal, even China does it in Myanma.

No, US NGOs, the CIA, and western governments had nothing to do with it... The Canadian government actually admitted to involvement in Maidan and providing support to "protestors". Also, if they were wanted by a majority of the people, that's why pro-Russian governments were back in power soon after, right? The Orange Revolution government barely lasted a couple years before imploding, and the Maidan government is go…

>why pro-Russian governments were back in power soon after, right?

Like Yanukovytch, who offered eurointegration, and was thrown after breaking his promises?

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#627

Post by IncRnd »

tim333 wrote: post #570
IncRnd wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The people who will get ahead in China in the future are the ones who are somehow able to live outside of China to experience new ideas. There are more people in China than in the United States, Europe, and Russia combined. China already manufactures your clothes, chips, computers, phones, and missile chips. I don't think it's correct, given the world's dependence on China, to say China is somehow behind the times…

I had to Google the missile thing. Bit of a shocker: "Last year, the U.S. Navy bought 59,000 microchips for use in everything from missiles to transponders and all of them turned out to be counterfeits from China." ( http://www.businessinsider.com/navy-chinese-microchips-weapo... )

It's really a touchy situation, no matter the angle you look at it.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#628

Post by turvytopsy »

bad_user wrote: post #116
micaksica wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The people who will get ahead in China in the future are the ones who are somehow able to live outside of China to experience new ideas. So in other words, the ruling class continues to rule, as they will be the only ones with the sanctioned political freedoms to study abroad, etc. > China's fate as being relegated to being the world's giant copy machine is sealed unless things revert China being the world's giant…

China might build their own products and I can see them building WhatsApp alternatives, but I won't install Chinese alternatives to WhatsApp on my phone, which means the Chinese won't be able to talk with me, an European, all the while I'm communicating without issues with acquaintances from all over Europe and the U.S. This means that the Chinese are living in a bubble. This isn't news of course. But the other issue…

>> But the other issue is that they can't attract much foreign talent to relocate there, like Europe and the U.S. have historically done. Because they don't have a culture friendly to immigrants, but also because their environment is toxic for those of us that are accustomed to liberal democracies.

This is becoming more and more untrue by the day.

While Europe and US did historically attract foreign talent, the good times were bound to come to an end once the immigrants started conspicuously thriving at the same time automation killed a lot of once well paying jobs for the locals. Ergo, Trump and the Trump-wannabes across Europe.

The notion of a "culture which is friendly to immigrants" is on a fairly quick downward trend and I would like to place bets with anyone here on this: the number of people immigrating into Europe and US will be drastically lower in about 5 years time.

The environment in liberal democracies are no less toxic today. A good example is a famous cartoonist whose once-intelligent writing on his website has turned into nutjob click-bait after he started fantasizing about his king-maker abilities. Either he holds opinions which are far from the majority, in which case you need to explain Trump's election. Or it coincides with the majority, in which case calling the outsiders' philosophy toxic is an example of someone in a glass house throwing stones at others.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#629

Post by lookACamel »

gaius wrote: post #250
Certhas wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternative: Innovation happens within the context of Chinas censorship and political regime. Blocking of entrenched western competitors allows home grown solutions to spring up, and local technological know how to develop faster. Capitalism and innovation turn out to work within the context of an illiberal society just fine. Especially as China avoids the mistake of closing itself off to the rest of the world, but s…

China will reach some predetermined level of technology that The Party decides they are comfortable with, then close their borders and just get on with being the Middle Kingdom in splendid isolation. That is my prediction. I don't think they feel the need to project power and remake the world the way the US and previously the UK do/did. Maybe they will disengage from the world and look spacewards.

I don't think there is a point where China will 'disengage', rather China will continue to do what it is doing now: monitor closely and throttle accordingly.

Re: China Blocks WhatsApp

#630

Post by lookACamel »

vorg wrote: post #419
FabHK wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not entirely implausible. That's in a sense what they did after they sent out Admiral Zheng He with a fleet of ships and thousands of men in the early 15th centuryas far as East Africa - they concluded "meh, nothing interesting there", and shut down the whole program. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zheng_He

The funding for Zheng He's voyages was pulled because Ming China needed the resources to defend against renewed attacks from the north, i.e. Mongolia and Siberia. Because Britain is an easily defended island and the Iberian peninsula has the Pyrenee mountains acting as a defensive wall, England and Spain didn't have this type of problem when they sent out their fleets.

What about the Dutch?
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