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OnHub

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Re: OnHub

#621

Post by VikingCoder »

Albright wrote: post #611
VikingCoder wrote: post #609

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fail to see how copying my data to more companies reduces my attack surface. > all incentive to data mine it for profit. Yes, and it has all incentive to protect my privacy, because if they screw that up, they lose all of my business, and all of everyone else's business, too.

> I fail to see how copying my data to more companies reduces my attack surface. I'm talking about your privacy and mine-ability, not your attack surface. (Though it does help with that too, in a way - a bigger chance someone will get some of your data, perhaps, but a smaller chance they'll get all of it.)

No. That does not help minimize my attack surface. You're confusing surface with depth. And unfortunately, someone doesn't need to steal very much of my data in order to screw me over royally. If my Social Security number is held by more companies, that does not help me.

Re: OnHub

#622

Post by ksk »

magicalist wrote: post #283
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their privacy policy seems open ended enough to indicate otherwise. Using this router allows Google to collect a HECK of a lot of data about your Internet usage.

No it doesn't? https://support.google.com/onhub/answer/6279845

Well, privacy policies are weaksauce and in general haven't been legally tested that much.

Terms of Service [1] is the real deal. For e.g. - (I've removed examples given in brackets)

-- When you upload, submit, store, send or receive content to or through our Services, you give Google (and those we work with) a worldwide license to use, host, store, reproduce, modify, create derivative works communicate, publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute such content.

The rights you grant in this license are for the limited purpose of operating, promoting, and improving our Services, and to develop new ones. This license continues even if you stop using our Services.

Our automated systems analyze your content to provide you personally relevant product features, such as customized search results, tailored advertising, and spam and malware detection. This analysis occurs as the content is sent, received, and when it is stored. --

So yeah, the Terms of Service is filled with so many legal loopholes that only a lawyer would love.

[1] http://www.google.com/intl/en/policies/terms/

Re: OnHub

#623

Post by lifeisstillgood »

astrocyte wrote: post #460
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the idea that the best protecting n for privacy is to make it expensive to snoop - it's worked for thousands of years so far. My concern is how to make the benefits of this huge amount of data (medical information, travel etc) possible while charging the other use. It's just - how - does one attach the metadata and enforce the lolicensing?

Therein lies the 'product' ... I'm working on several projects so I wasn't shy to put the general idea of this one out there... It's one of many things I feel passionately are going to be changed by disruptive paradigm shifts ahead. That being said, you come up w/ the 'solution' and you'll have your 'product'... I already have a general architecture/approach outlined for myself. Create one and, from the looks of the…

I'm wondering if / how the identity problem, blockchain proof of physical ownership and ...

Well, firstly applications should stop thinking they are CoW - data is something that gets passed in and operated on.

Secondly data operations should be side effect free - and distributed, so that we can ask for processing- in many ways I would expect not to share my data but to accept payment in return for some slice of processing someone wants

This may work ok, and generally the things we want (social networks) will be fine with local data sharing - facebooks walled garden would have to be replaced with open protocol (ie AOL -> SMTP) and no idea how to achieve that.

So im not setting the world on fire here. But I think the shape of future is clear - just getting there ...

Re: OnHub

#625

Post by zaroth »

Killswitch wrote: post #606
zaroth wrote: post #570

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can debug the device remotely, you can debug the device remotely without trusting a third party. There's absolutely no reason your private home router should be a slave to whatever remote configuration, monitoring, or intercept that some third party may be under legal orders to implement. IMO these devices are nothing but parasites. On the positive side, Google has no track record with selling this kind of dev…

Google Fiber is one of the most wanted things in the tech world. You think having your traffic go through their router is bad? I don't even want to know how you'd feel about every internet thing you do being on their network.

There is a significant difference between being the first hop after the firewall, and the firewall actual.

Re: OnHub

#626

Post by sdrothrock »

WA wrote: post #572
nota_bene wrote: post #564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spot on. I don't get it. It's become so obvious and people still seem to categorically refuse to admit the elephant in the room and to act upon it. It's as if everybody was in some kind of unbreakable state of permanent cognitive paralysis.

And still, the HN crowd uses Gmail a lot. Here's the most technical crowd on the planet and people are obsessed with Gmail as if it was impossible to get email to work by any other means. Furthermore, I will never understand why people would use Gmail, if there's IMAP and hundreds of email clients to choose from. Same is true for Google Reader, that apparently caused a lot of buzz when it went away. Never understood…

> The only Google product I use is Google Maps

I tried Bing Maps the other day and was surprised how much more usable it is. It loads faster, moves faster, and actually has a nicer interface because it uses semitransparent text to show names of areas.

Re: OnHub

#627

Post by pdkl95 »

VikingCoder wrote: post #591
nota_bene wrote: post #564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spot on. I don't get it. It's become so obvious and people still seem to categorically refuse to admit the elephant in the room and to act upon it. It's as if everybody was in some kind of unbreakable state of permanent cognitive paralysis.

How do you propose the common person act upon it? Don't get a Google Router. Okay. Don't use Google Fiber. Well, shucks - there's not a lot of 1,000 megabit ISPs in my area. Don't use a Chromebook. Okay. What virus scanner should I install, then? And where should I store my data for backup? And didn't we hear that Microsoft tried to have Windows 10 phone home every damn keystroke or something? Google browser. Fair en…

> Don't {...}

You have pointed out many of the reasons why this is indeed a hard problem. That's why some of us have been trying to warn about these dangers for almost 20 years. The problem was significantly easier to fight 10 (or even 5) years ago, but everybody - including the technically knowledgeable people that should have known better - decided that shiny features were more important than paying attention to the larger picture and defending their future freedom.

> What do you think the common person could or should do, that would be better for them?

They should not use any service that goes against their long-term interests. While having a replacement is nice, this might require making a sacrifice. The lack of an alternative doesn't justify supporting the bad option[1].

Do you think that this problem is going to get any easier as time goes on? The cost of leaving Google is only going to increase, so it might be a good idea to find a way to pay that cost sooner rather than later.

[1] "...we've proved it again and again, that if once you have paid him the Dane-geld you never get rid of the Dane." ( http://www.poetryloverspage.com/poets/kipling/dane_geld.html )

Re: OnHub

#628

Post by BetaCygni »

jordanthoms wrote: post #458
BetaCygni wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DrayTek sucks as a router, those things need to be rebooted all the time. Use an EdgeRouter.

No experience with Draytek's routers, but I've been happy with their ADSL/VDSL modems (Vigor 120/130). They have some really nice features, like PPPoA -> PPPoE passthrough.

We're using a few of their modems in bridge mode and then everything works fine. It's just the routing they can't do.

Re: OnHub

#629

Post by toothbrush »

greghill wrote: post #575
WA wrote: post #572

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And still, the HN crowd uses Gmail a lot. Here's the most technical crowd on the planet and people are obsessed with Gmail as if it was impossible to get email to work by any other means. Furthermore, I will never understand why people would use Gmail, if there's IMAP and hundreds of email clients to choose from. Same is true for Google Reader, that apparently caused a lot of buzz when it went away. Never understood…

Is the search as good or as fast at gmail on these IMAP clients? I used the mail app for iPhone for a while and it sure isn't.

Searching is a solved problem if you use OfflineIMAP to mirror your mail store locally, then run mu or notmuch on top of it. Honestly, it's faster for me to search my local mail store than using some web interface. Plus, i can do it in the train when i have no internet connection. I happily pay a few euros a month for an email server which provides me with IMAP.

Re: OnHub

#630

Post by [deleted] »

hobarrera wrote: post #423
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The router is cloud configured from your mobile device, that is how it works. Some cloud services for the device are actually optional. But AFAIK you still need a Google Account. Here is the help page on the topic of data collection and privacy: https://support.google.com/onhub/answer/6246642?hl=en&ref_to... And see also, how to set a whole bunch of privacy settings: https://support.google.com/onhub/answer/6279845?vi…

> The router is cloud configured from your mobile device, that is how it works. How do I configure a router if I need an internet connection to configure it? Sounds like a circular dependency issue.

[deleted]
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