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Steam Frame

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611–620 of 717 posts

Re: Steam Frame

#611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A good while back I abandoned PC gaming because I was sick of driver issues, compatibility, and always having to update hardware to play the next game. Instead, I embraced consoles and haven't considered PC gaming since then. This, however, has me reconsidering that. I want it to "just work". When I want to play games, I don't want to deal with all of that other crap. I'm old, ain't nobody got time for that.

I guess you abandoned PC gaming some time in the early 2000s?

I can't speak for the other poster, but I actually recently "abandoned" PC gaming. For me, it wasn't a deliberate decision but more of a change in behavior that occurred over time. I suspect the key event was picking up a PS5 Pro. For me, it's the first console that's felt powerful enough to scratch a similar itch as PC gaming -- except I could just plug it into our Atmos-equipped "home theater" set up and have it not only work flawlessly but be easily accessible to everyone, not just me. Since picking it up, between the PS5 Pro and handheld gaming devices, I just have not played a game on my gaming PC a single time and am currently planning on retiring it as a result.

There may be a connection here with age and the type of games I play too. I'm in my mid-30s now and am not interested in competitive twitch shooters like Call of Duty. In many cases, the games I've been interested in have actually been PS5 exclusives or were a mostly equivalent experience on PS5 Pro vs. PC or were actually arguably better on PS5 Pro (e.g., Jedi Survivor). In some cases, like with Doom: The Dark Ages, I've been surprised at how much I enjoyed something I previously would've only considered playing on PC -- the PS5 Pro version still manages to offer both 60 FPS and ray tracing. In other cases, like Diablo IV, I started playing on PC but gradually over time my playtime naturally transitioned almost entirely to PS5 Pro. The last time I played Diablo IV on my PC, which has a 4090, I was shocked at how unstable and stutter-filled the game was with ray tracing enabled, whereas it's comparatively much more stable on PS5 Pro while still offering ray tracing (albeit at 30 FPS -- but I've come to prefer stability > raw FPS in all but the most latency-sensitive games).

One benefit of this approach if you live with someone else or have a family, etc., is that investments in your setup can be experienced by everyone, even non-gamers. For instance, rather than spending thousands of dollars on a gaming PC that only I would use, I've instead been in the market for an upgraded and larger TV for the "home theater", which everyone can use both for gaming and non-gaming purposes.

Something else very cool but still quite niche and poorly understood, even amongst tech circles, is that it's possible to stream PS5 games into the Vision Pro. There are a few ways of doing this, but my preferred method has been using an app called Portal. This is a truly unique experience because of the Vision Pro's combination of high-end displays and quality full-color passthrough / mixed reality. You can essentially get a 4K 120"+ curved screen floating in space in the middle of your room at perfect eye level, with zero glare regardless of any lighting conditions in the room, while still using your surround sound system for audio. The only downside is that streaming does introduce some input latency. I wouldn't play Doom this way, but something like Astro Bot is just phenomenal. This all works flawlessly out of the box with no configuration.

Re: Steam Frame

#612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you abandoned PC gaming some time in the early 2000s?

Drivers are not an issue for quite some time (but its always good to have latest nvidia ones for example for optimizations focused on given game). But its trivial to run into some .NET or Visual C++ redistributable hell when you just get a cryptic error during starting and thats it. Just check internet. I have roughly 20 of them installed currently (why the heck?) and earlier versions would happily get installed over…

> Drivers are not an issue for quite some time

> its trivial to run into some .NET or Visual C++ redistributable hell when you just get a cryptic error during starting and thats it. Just check internet.

Thanks for making my point for me.

Re: Steam Frame

#613

Foveated streaming! That's a great idea. Foveated rendering is complicated to implement with current rendering APIs in a way that actually improves performance, but foveated streaming seems like a much easier win that applies to all content automatically. And the dedicated 6 GHz dongle should do a much better job at streaming than typical wifi routers. > Just like any SteamOS device, install your own apps, open a bro…

> But the price is hopefully low.

The main value of Meta VR and AR products is the massive price subsidy which is needed because the brand has been destroyed for all generations older than Alpha.

The current price estimate for the Steam Frame is $1200 vs Quest 3 at $600 which is still a very reasonable price given the technology, tariffs, and lack of ad invading privacy

Re: Steam Frame

#614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh hell yes. There was a leak of specs (via a benchmarking database) of an upcoming machine from Valve and I had my fingers crossed that it was a mini PC and not some VR thingy, saw this thread, and was sad for a moment before I spotted this post. 6x as powerful as the Steam deck (that I use plugged in anyway 98% of the time—I’d have bought a Steam Deck 2, but I’m glad I get the option to put money toward more perfor…

What is the draw of the Steam machine though? They say the price is comparable to similarly specced PC. So why not just buy/build any mini PC? There's plenty of options for that

The experience of using a custom build is terrible.

The best experience you can get atm is to use Steams big picture mode, and that doesn't give you pause/resume, and you will sometimes need to use keyb & mouse to solve issues, plus you need to manage the whole OS yourself etc.

Valves SteamOS which already runs on the Steam Deck gives you all the QoL that you expect out of a console. Pause / resume with power button press, complete control via controller, fully managed OS.

What's missing are "in experience" native apps like Netflix/AppleTV/etc. as well as support for certain games which are blocked on anti-cheat.

My wife is a research scientist who uses linux with her day job, but she isn't interested in dealing with any nonsense when she's relaxing at the end of the day. The Steam Deck has been a wonder for her - suddenly she's playing the same games as me with none of the hassle. The Steam Machine will suddenly open a bunch of my friends and family up to PC games as well.

It won't be long until you can put SteamOS on any machine you make yourself, but the Steam Machine will serve as reference and "default" hardware for the majority.

Re: Steam Frame

#615
post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The key takeaway is that you will rebuild the drivers less often: 1) The stack is mature now, we know what features can exist. 2) For me it's about having the same stack as on a 3588 SBC, so I don't need to download many GB of Android software just to build/run the game. The distance to getting a open-source driver stack will probably be shorter because of these 2 things, meaning OpenVR/SteamVR being closed is less o…

I'm confused. Why would you develop a game on a SBC (that's not powerful enough to do VR)? Why are you not just cross compiling? It's possible that you can have a full open source stack some day on these goggles.. but I don't think that's something that's obviously going to happen. SteamVR sounds like their version of GooglePlay Services

3588 can do VR, just not Unity/Unreal VR. That is a problem with bloated engines not the 3588.

All mainstream headsets get open-source drivers eventually: https://github.com/collabora/libsurvive

Re: Steam Frame

#616

Foveated streaming! That's a great idea. Foveated rendering is complicated to implement with current rendering APIs in a way that actually improves performance, but foveated streaming seems like a much easier win that applies to all content automatically. And the dedicated 6 GHz dongle should do a much better job at streaming than typical wifi routers. > Just like any SteamOS device, install your own apps, open a bro…

How the hell would foveated streaming even work, it seems physically impossible. Tracking where your eye is looking then sending that information to a server, it processing it and then streaming that back seems impossible.

It just needs to be less impossible than not doing it. I.e. sending a full frame of information must be an even more impossible problem.

Re: Steam Frame

#617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is Linux support?

From the review section: Nikos Q: Linux Desktop support? A: Hi, Linux is not officially supported but can absolutely work with the Beyond 2. I'd suggest joining the Bigscreen Beyond Discord server for more information Thanks By Bigscreen Support Team --- Rant: they have disabled selected text for the reviews for some inexplicable reason.

Lol, doesn't sound confidence inspiring. "More info in Discord" is such a non-starter.

I wish Valve every bit of success, if they deliver an open platform people can own and hack.

Re: Steam Frame

#618
OK, so it's Valve's version of HP Reverb G2 just released 5 years later. It doesn't even match the best Pimax/HTC, not to mention Apple's one.

Re: Steam Frame

#619

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does have IR tracking, so presumably it could be made compatible with lighthouses, but if they don't make it compatible (and currently the page makes no mention of it) I don't know how well it could track objects out of frame considering the cameras are still mounted on the headset. The controllers also have gyros, but from what I've read dead reckoning from gyros small enough for mobile devices really isn't relia…

The controllers won't have lighthouse tracking though. The IR tracking is the headset tracking the controller's IR LEDs, which the Index controllers do not have. It might be possible to have the headset IR track the lighthouses, and then use the old Index controllers, which also track the lighthouses. There's also tools to calibrate the different tracking methods together, but that seems less than ideal.

Good catch, I just saw IR tracking on the page and didn't investigate further. I can't wait to see some teardowns (physical and firmware) of the device, then we can get a better look at what it is truly capable of.

Though it wouldn't help the controllers, perhaps the expansion port on the headset could be used for a lighthouse-compatible tracker? (One can dream...)

Re: Steam Frame

#620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's crazy. I feel dumb for initial thinking it was somehow doing eye tracking to achieve this, despite having no such hardware installed. I would be curious to see a similar thing that includes flashing. Anecdotally, my peripheral vision seems to be highly sensitive to flashing/strobing even if it is evidently poor at seeing fine details. Make me think compression in the time domain (e.g. reducing frame rate) will…

It is doing eye tracking for the foveated rendering - it has 2 cameras inside the visor for it.

They're referring to the shadertoy linked above. The illusion simulates foveated rendering on your device without eye tracking.
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