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‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

latimes.com

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Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#611

Post by ASalazarMX »

Liron wrote: post #346
swat535 wrote: post #205

Can someone living in Israel help me understand what is going on right now? What does the political climate look like in Israel? Do majority of people support what is happening, if so why? if not, how is the government executing this? Further, has this had any impact on the overall relationship between Jewish people worldwide and those residing in Israel? if so, how? I know that the media is all over the place and it…

Israeli here, can't directly answer your question since I've lived in the US for 99% of my adult life, but I consider myself pro-Israel and resent the way Israel is currently/always being portrayed. I see the key problem as people removing context: Context for why the current situation could easily be different if Hamas acted/acts differently, and context for why there is no "just stop fighting" option that leaves Is…

> there is no "just stop fighting" option that leaves Israel with a high confidence that another Oct 7 won't happen in the next few years

How can the same country that prides itself in their intel/spying prowess, and has demonstrated sophisticated capabilities and attacks, claim it will be helpless if they don't absolutely disappear another group of people and take their territory?

I seriously doubt the Oct 7 attack caught Israel by surprise, given the scale of it and the level of compromise Israel had on Hamas. Given the disproportionate response Israel was prepared to employ, it was a perfect casus belli to appropriate even more land, as it is happening right now.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#612

Post by istjohn »

mysterEFrank wrote: post #589
fahhem wrote: post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A genocide doesn't start after you kill X% of the population. It happens when you intend to, and boy do they look like they intended this all along

I believe Israel is committing war crimes but yours is the same argument that Israelis make. That genocide is about intent, which isn't there.

If you read the section of South Africa's Application Instituting Proceedings in the International Court of Justice entitled Expressions of Genocidal Intent against the Palestinian People by Israeli State Officials and Others, you'll find a compelling case that genocidal intent was clearly expressed. There are over seven pages of quotes and citations of Israeli leaders expressing that intent.

The section begins halfway down page 59.

0. https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192...

Edit: The application was submitted on December 28, 2023.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#614

Post by immibis »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #332
hearsathought wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if israel loses in the end. There were tons of pro-germany collaborators during ww2 right up until germany lost.

And if Israel wins and ethnically cleanses Gaza: Sadly, there was nothing we could have done to stop it.

In that case it won't be "there was nothing we could have done to stop it" but rather something like "it didn't happen" and/or "it was good that it happened"

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#615

Post by tome »

shkkmo wrote: post #594
tome wrote: post #570

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not "faux". I mean it genuinely. It's one thing to claim that Israel should ensure food security (that's my point of view). It's quite another to claim "collective punishment", and that doesn't stand up to scrutiny. By the way, there are hundreds of trucks on the Gaza side of the border, the opposite of blocked, let through by Israel, but the UN refuses to collect them and distribute them: https://x.com/Ostrov_A…

> It's quite another to claim "collective punishment", and that doesn't stand up to scrutiny. 17,000 kids killed directly by Isreal. > the UN refuses to collect them and distribute them A blatant lie. Actual news coverage of that border crossing: https://apnews.com/article/aid-gaza-hunger-united-nations-e7...

I'm still not sure what you mean. Are you saying that when children are unintentionally killed in war that is "punishment"? Were the children killed by NATO troops in Afghanistan "punished"? For that matter, do you think Oct 7 was Palestine "punishing" Israel?

> A blatant lie.

Interesting. How are you so sure that the article I linked is a blatant lie and the one you linked isn't?

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#616

Post by AnimalMuppet »

fahhem wrote: post #554
2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They shouldn't but the harsh reality is that we all suffer for the mistakes of our leaders. Put bad people in power (Hamas) and everyone pays.

Under 7% of Palestinians in Gaza (before losing 1-3% of their population in this genocide) voted for Hamas. The rest either didn't vote for them, or are too young to have voted. Should the US be nuked because ~51% voted for Trump (or Bush, Obama, Clinton, pick the one you hate)?

"Should"? I don't think that was a "should" statement. I think it was a cause and effect statement. Bad people in power leads to suffering in the population. This observation goes way back, at least as far as the book of Ecclesiastes: "Woe to you, O land, when your king is a child, and your princes feast in the morning!"

Will the US suffer for putting bad people in power? Almost certainly, even if it doesn't come to the level of being nuked.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#617

Post by immibis »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #503
lern_too_spel wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you define this group of people? Most Palestinians have more of the blood of Abraham than the European Jews who displaced them. The idea that the Jews fled Palestine after the Romans conquered it is a myth that can be verified by genetic testing. Many stayed and Hellenized and then converted to Christianity and then converted to Islam. Now these people won't do the rational thing and "convert" back to Judaism…

https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/dammi-israeli-the-genetic-or... "On balance it is fair to state that Palestinians are in fact ethnically Israelite. The divide between the Israelis and Palestinians is on religious and linguistic lines only."

Meanwhile, the current Israelis are mostly descended from Europeans (e.g. Germany, fleeing the Holocaust) and not from Israelites.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#618

Post by istjohn »

tguvot wrote: post #606
istjohn wrote: post #593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would put it this way: in my eyes, the violent subjugation of Palestinians is brutal colonialism whether conducted by loosely organized vigilantes or officially state-sanctioned actors. Of course the PA could not maintain power without Israeli support. They don't represent Palestinian interests.

and who represents palestinian interests those days ?

If Israel allowed elections, I could answer you, and Israel would have a negotiating partner. But I don't think Israel has any interest in negotiating.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#619

Post by ben_w »

PontifexMinimus wrote: post #578
tome wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you believe Israel's continued existence is assured?

No, because of their own behaviour. Israel might well lose the support of the USA and Europe, and if that happened the continued existence of their state would be far from certain.

Europe is certainly shifting.

I think the USA is unlikely to shift for as long as it's one single democratic nation, owing to internal political demographics. Same reasons it hasn't shifted on Cuba. But the USA keeps surprising me by failing to implode despite what all the politicians have been saying about each other, and by the anti-government language often used to justify gun ownership, so if I was in a position to influence Israel, I would be suggesting a diversification of international support.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#620

Post by cultofmetatron »

prepend wrote: post #509
brentm wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem here though is what will ever give Israel confidence that Oct 7 will never happen again? We know that going after terrorists for years and killing them just creates more terrorists (Iraq, Afghanistan). The young children who do not end up dying of starvation will be men in 20 years, still in Gaza with no options to leave and resent Israel who they will consider to be effectively their jailer. The situatio…

> what will ever give Israel confidence that Oct 7 will never happen again? No Hamas in power? Seems like that would give pretty good confidence. This reminds me of alternate history stories where Japan refused to surrender. The US demanded unconditional surrender in WW2. What would have happened if the axis refused. What would have made the allies confident that the war was over without German and Japanese unconditi…

Hamas isn' in control of the west bank. That hasn't gone so well for the Palestinians either.

Google "Great March of Return" if you want to learn about what happenned when palestinians tried to protest peacefully.

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