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I'm starting a social club to solve the male loneliness epidemic

wave3.social

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Re: I'm starting a social club to solve the male loneliness epidemic

#611

Post by ryandrake »

jaredklewis wrote: post #606
SoftTalker wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well we already have people on this page commenting on the demograpic represented on the submitted web site. Yes, in today's world there are almost always people looking to play "gotcha" and will try to pin you as a racist, misogynist, homophobe, or some other sort of bigot or pariah.

Ok, but it still seems to be quite rare? I don’t live in the woods or anything and I’ve never been the victim of a “gotcha.” I’ve definitely offended people on various occasions (which I mostly felt bad about), but none of those people ever felt so strongly they tried to ruin my life over it. Nor have I ever known anyone that was “gotcha”-ed as you described. I unfortunately have known people that have died in car cr…

I think the "They might 'gotcha' me and then cancel me as a [racist/sexist/bigot/etc]" fear is overblown and comes mostly from people chronically online and people who care what randos on Twitter write. Yes, the Internet is full of keyboard warriors just waiting to catch you saying something they can twist into some -ism, but these people don't exist in real life, or at least they keep their opinions to themselves in real life. I personally don't care what random people on the Internet think. They might be over there on Twitter canceling me as a racist or sexist right now, and it doesn't affect my life even slightly.

Re: I'm starting a social club to solve the male loneliness epidemic

#612

Post by afavour »

JimDabell wrote: post #259
bcraven wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have selectively quoted that article. Note the last four paragraphs are: >Andrew McNerney, 70, admitted there was initially some resistance to becoming a mixed group. >He said: "There was apprehension, but in all honesty, it's turned out well. >"We [the men] escape now and again [to the quiet room] and have a chat and weigh things up." >But he added: "It's a lovely atmosphere, and it's been good."

Yes. I selectively pulled out the bits that I thought were relevant instead of quoting the whole thing. I know he said that it’s been good, but taken in relation to the rest of the article, I don’t place much weight on it. The women persistently pressured the men to join, the men were apprehensive, they allowed them in for one morning, one morning turned into all the time, women now comprise 50% of the group, and the…

> the men were apprehensive, they allowed them in for one morning, one morning turned into all the time

Your assumption is that it “turned into all the time” against the wishes of the men but that’s not clear at all. Being apprehensive about change and then quickly discovering it was for the better is something we all experience in life.

Re: I'm starting a social club to solve the male loneliness epidemic

#613

Post by ryandrake »

mrweasel wrote: post #384
yodsanklai wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> he absolutely have no experience talking to or otherwise interacting with younger women. A sad fact of life, but at 50, most men aren't attractive to women 10 years younger than them, and it becomes pretty awkward and socially unacceptable to do anything that could be interpreted as flirting. Now I don't know about the situation in gyms in the US, maybe the situation is extreme there. But generally speaking, I don'…

> I don't find it particularly sad if people mind their own business in the gym. But that is part of the whole loneliness issue isn't it. I can certainly understand people wanting to just do their workout, but it's one less source of interaction between people. We don't talk to be people at the supermarket, we don't talk to people waiting for the bus, we'd rather listen to a podcast during our workout, than talk to t…

From a guy's point of view, initiating a conversation with a random woman anywhere, not just in the gym, is fraught with peril, and probably not worth it. The difference between "flirting" and "creepy" is entirely in the mind of the recipient, and if you initiate a conversation, you really have no control over how it's interpreted. The downside can be pretty bad if it's received poorly.

I'm exceedingly grateful I'm already married and don't have to put up with this minefield anymore!

Re: I'm starting a social club to solve the male loneliness epidemic

#614

Post by lavelganzu »

keiferski wrote: post #173

This idea appears every once in awhile, as it’s obviously a major issue in modern life. The interesting thing though is how the solution is always location-agnostic. By that I mean it’s never really about a specific cafe or restaurant or soccer field, it’s always an app or service that organizes people to show up in various places. I bring this up because if you look at places that had lively social activities a few…

Isn't this merely a technological change? "A few decades or a century ago", being location-specific was the only possible option for a social club. Now there are more options; location-specific options still exist, and location-agnostic options exist also.

You can totally pick a convenient cafe or pub and start hanging out there & inviting your existing friends. In time you'll start to recognize the other regulars, and you can make a point of chatting with them regularly (but not overstaying your welcome especially early on!), find out what they're interested in, offer & request small favors, crack jokes, eventually a bit of friendly competition, casual debate about mutual interests while intentionally trusting them enough to let them change your mind a little, etc -- all the things you'd normally do to build a social connection with another man. The upside and downside of a location-based approach is that it's a very weak filter. The other regulars may be people whom it's a real stretch to learn to connect with.

Location-agnostic social activities are typically focused on an activity or interest, e.g. people who want to hike, watch a movie, play a game or sport, do political activism, do community service, etc. So the social group comes with a filter attached that ensures you will have an easier time connecting with them. This is great! There are some downsides, too, but nothing serious.

Re: I'm starting a social club to solve the male loneliness epidemic

#615

Post by aaronbaugher »

fragmede wrote: post #570
bcraven wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have selectively quoted that article. Note the last four paragraphs are: >Andrew McNerney, 70, admitted there was initially some resistance to becoming a mixed group. >He said: "There was apprehension, but in all honesty, it's turned out well. >"We [the men] escape now and again [to the quiet room] and have a chat and weigh things up." >But he added: "It's a lovely atmosphere, and it's been good."

> > But he added: "It's a lovely atmosphere, and it's been good." Which man, who ever wants to get laid again, would be stupid enough to give anything short of an absolutely glowing review about that change to a reporter .

Yeah, you can imagine the headline they'd put on that one.

And that's how the ratchet works. Go to any subreddit that talks about relationships, and every time there's a man versus woman scenario, unless it's very clear that the woman was in the wrong, nearly all the women will side with the woman. But half the men will also side with the woman, because they don't want to offend the women -- even anonymous women on the Internet who almost certainly will never sleep with them. The other half of the men get downvoted to oblivion, or they learn to keep certain opinions to themselves, and it ends up looking like everyone thinks women are always right.

Re: I'm starting a social club to solve the male loneliness epidemic

#616

Post by nothercastle »

HankStallone wrote: post #498
jamesdeluk wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why didn't they start Women's Sheds?

Women do have their own spaces, at least here in the Midwest US. But women tend to think the men are having more fun over in their male-only spaces, so they want into them, and then those spaces become co-ed, and pretty soon the men are looking around for a new male-only space. Not because they don't enjoy spending time with women, but because there's something about a male-only space that lets a man relax and rechar…

It’s because women fight vigorously and scream loudly to keep men out. They call them creeps and that’s almost always effective

Re: I'm starting a social club to solve the male loneliness epidemic

#617

Post by phendrenad2 »

KolibriFly wrote: post #292
Telemakhos wrote: post #16

Sometimes I wish we could have "gentlemen's clubs" of the sort that existed in Victorian Britain (not the US strip club version), third-spaces where one could go to read or converse or play cards with other men or even have a meal or a drink. Having social space that's limited to a set of people one knows, more or less, and that has rules on behavior seems like a civilizing influence that's missing today.

I think any modern version would need to be way more inclusive and not just in terms of gender, but also class and background. The old-school gentlemen's clubs had a pretty narrow membership by design

I agree. It doesn't take much to topple this idea. A few lawsuits over discrimination that the club is bankrupt.

Re: I'm starting a social club to solve the male loneliness epidemic

#618

Post by scelerat »

keiferski wrote: post #173

This idea appears every once in awhile, as it’s obviously a major issue in modern life. The interesting thing though is how the solution is always location-agnostic. By that I mean it’s never really about a specific cafe or restaurant or soccer field, it’s always an app or service that organizes people to show up in various places. I bring this up because if you look at places that had lively social activities a few…

It seems to me that an underlying assumption of every so-called "social" app is that its users wish to avoid contact with people in real life. That the users wish for some sanitized, safe and dimensionally meager simulacrum of human interaction.

Obviously, that's not an absolute; clearly people yearn for human contact. But as you point out, there was a time when people participated in social activities and public life with a much higher degree of physical presence than they do now, and the popularity of apps which sidestep this indicate to me that people also desire not to engage with others so proximately.

If you want to have relationships with people, go to where people actually are, buckle your belt, set aside your dread of rejection or indifference, and introduce yourself.

Re: I'm starting a social club to solve the male loneliness epidemic

#619

Post by _DeadFred_ »

iteria wrote: post #603
_DeadFred_ wrote: post #562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My son was the gentlest soul. He did city year to help inner city youth with their schooling. He has a very liberal sexuality. He loves and accepts everyone. He has gone over to the dark side and I am heartbroken. The final straw was he built up a business from scratch, with the laid out plan that if he got it running and was successful he would run it. Once it was all successfully running the promise was broken and…

Okay. Let's say everything you said was true. Why is it acceptable for white men to say, "hey, I'm being discriminated against, I would like to oppress everyone else so I can feel better" instead of what historically oppressed minorities do which is advocate for the better of their demographic even in the face of opposition. This difference in action is why I think that people have a hard time having empathy. These s…

Because the response they are receiving when they 'advocate for the better of their demographic (and the type of response that is turning them sour/disillusioned) is:

"Let's say everything you said was true" - iteria (needlessly implying it's a lie/not happening)

"someone is providing an easy scapegoat for their own problems" - tayo42 (implying what they are experience/feeling isn't real/valid. This takes some temporary bullshit that they are feeling and ends up ossifying it into ugliness/a horrible position/a shit worldview, and drives them into horrible online communities designed to take advantage of this all and feeding them into the trash right pipeline).

I'm not justifying it, I hate that I'm losing my boy into it, but I can only push so much without it pushing him harder into 'one side doesn't validate my feelings so I'm going the other way'. I think a little empathy from his peers would have gone a long way. Instead he was ostracized by his peers when he moved back home because he went through a crappy situations that seriously impacted his life and wanted someone to share a little empathy with him, because he was a white male asking for that empathy.

Re: I'm starting a social club to solve the male loneliness epidemic

#620

Post by tropdrop »

steveBK123 wrote: post #519
542354234235 wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add, in walkable communities you are much more likely to be a “regular” at more places, since you are walking to the places nearby, and to share multiple regular places with other people. Walking 15 minutes to 30 minutes still keep you in about a 1-2 mile radius, which is pretty small and has a lot of overlap with other people walking. So you are likely to see the same people at the bar as at the gym or the coffee…

It's more cultural than walkability. I've lived about 20 years in NYC but now spend months at a time outside the city as well. In the US, in VHCOL places like NYC filled with upper middle class striver / PMC types.. everything is so fleeting & ephemeral you just don't have "regulars". You just feel anonymous. Everything is moving/changing all the time, expectations and trust are low. There is a lot of classism. I liv…

Backing up a sister comment on this thread: I've lived in SF and Chicago, both also as walkable as it gets for the US, and in both had relationships as a "regular," whether at a corner store, cafe, or the grocer. I remember our Albanian corner store guy in particular, who would comment on me gaining or losing weight. Our neighborhoods felt like a small town where we all knew each other (including the homeless!).

I live near New York now, and while I hear from friends that they find that kind of community in some faraway boroughs of NYC, everyone in Manhattan reports your profound and deep sense of alienation from their fellow man, though some with a positive spin.

I have not seen this alienating anonymity in any other part of the country, though I have felt it whenever I'm there. As there is no other place in this country even remotely as dense or with faster turnover (not even SF), I'm fairly confident Manhattan is unique (in this country).

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