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80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

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Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#611

Post by tanjtanjtanj »

gambiting wrote: post #550
xp84 wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And supposedly, layoffs aren’t legally allowed to be performance or merit-based! You’re supposed to lay off only for eliminating a position. When projects are shut down, that’s a natural one, but when it’s a X% cut of all engineering staff, for instance, it’s meant to be almost random, on paper at least. Of course in real life nobody would lay off the absolute most genius 10x developer, but nobody’s supposed to be la…

>>And supposedly, layoffs aren’t legally allowed to be performance or merit-based! Where is that? Even in the EU where employee protections are very strong you can absolutely let go of someone because of poor performance, you just have to do the whole dance of giving them enough warnings, then a PIP, then you can terminate their employment as they are failing their contractual duties. It's not super simple but it is…

Then it's not a layoff at that point.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#612

Post by lowbloodsugar »

sharts wrote: post #49
darth_avocado wrote: post #18

They’re not regretting the decisions. They’re regretting the fact their poor decision making capabilities are on full display. Most of these “bosses” would still be caught doubling down on the RTO narrative and threatening people to show up to work. Bosses with Elon style of management, please take a warning. A weekly email threatening to fire people if they don’t show up in the office 5 days a week only works the fi…

Not only that but those that stay are the “yes” men/women who are either bootlickers or accept that they aren’t valued much and thus will put in minimal genuine effort and just comply with stupid directives to the letter. In the end you just don’t get that diversity of thought through disagreement/evolution/personal ownership that you otherwise get when people feel comfortable enough to genuinely show up and be missi…

Ironically, I know people that like to be in the office, and are now pissed because they can't get a desk because of all the people who don't want to be there.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#613

Post by imbnwa »

midoridensha wrote: post #599
ajkjk wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol. The intention was to build the suburbs far away from the offices, not the other way around.

Exactly: the problem isn't the corporate employers, it's the middle-class Americans who bought into the suburban dream. Now that they got away from the black people downtown, they're complaining about the commute.

It's this, 100%, but I asked anyway just to see the thought process

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#614

Post by tester756 »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #119
tester756 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, you found simple solution for very complicated dynamic and you actually believe you solved this problem? I don't care about offices with doors. Sure, they're better, but still it doesn't solve my issues - I care about commute - time and money, especially time. I've been commuting like 3h / day before WFH and I don't want to go back unless you pay me at least 2.5x

I think this is a great comment. > I care about commute - time and money, especially time. I'm assuming you have done the whole draw a circle around where you live that represents your maximum willingness to commute and then apply for jobs in that circle thing? It was very popular in silicon valley during the dot com boom. When the commute circle comes up empty though, what do you do? Not snark, 100% serious. Hired a…

>I'm assuming you have done the whole draw a circle around where you live that represents your maximum willingness to commute and then apply for jobs in that circle thing? It was very popular in silicon valley during the dot com boom. When the commute circle comes up empty though, what do you do?

Well, no. There isn't many companies that need SE around me, let alone companies that pay well or do interesting stuff.

Before WFH I've worked for a few years at one company and then WFH arrived and I've started applying for interesting offers.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#615

Post by closeparen »

bagacrap wrote: post #586
closeparen wrote: post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have agency in that we could choose to renounce careers in tech. That’s it. There is a price/quality tradeoff in every housing market; all complaints about price can be interpreted as insufficient willingness to compromise on quality. A cardboard box under a bridge is free! “You’re actually obscenely wealthy because you don’t live in a basement and drive 6 hours to work” is not the argument you think it is. Tech w…

You can easily find big tech jobs in Seattle, Austin, NY, Denver, Los Angeles, etc etc. Actions speak louder than words, so no, they are not telling me they want to live elsewhere. They're telling me they like to complain.

Moving to New York or Los Angeles for affordable housing is ridiculous on its face. Austin, Denver, and I would add Miami were basically flash-in-the-pan situations: first movers got some great deals, but the housing markets have priced it in by now & the forward-looking job market outlooks are uncertain.

Seattle is interesting in that it's clearly a durable tech job center and is meaningfully cheaper than San Francisco. It's still twice as expensive as a normal place ($862k vs. $400k) and its street conditions reflect a housing crisis every bit as severe as San Francisco's, but it's true that you could keep your career while paying ~30% less there. So I guess the delta between SF and SEA could be interpreted as a lifestyle splurge.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#616

Post by closeparen »

evantbyrne wrote: post #521
closeparen wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My contention is they won’t be able to sustain it, because either the wages will be uncompetitive or remote workers will pay off their houses and no longer need to work (as much).

Wages aren't even close to being high enough that companies won't able to afford workers. Developers in the standard ranges don't even need to consider what a company can afford when doing salary negotiations. With the exception of small businesses, it's about what they are _willing_ to pay, not what they are able to.

I'm not saying they can't afford high wages. I'm saying levels.fyi-scale wages for a few years in a normal housing market would leave an employee much pickier about companies/projects/conditions vs. someone who still needs to grind hard for his first 1BR in New York or San Francisco.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#617

Post by hdjjhhvvhga »

heavyset_go wrote: post #590
everdrive wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember the first time I was in an open office. I was flabbergasted. We'd all get on a call so we could talk to some remote vendor. Other people would have their mics on, so I'd hear my own voice repeated and delayed through the Zoom call. I could barely talk, and barely hear anyone. It was a self-evidently terrible decision that everyone was just going along with. Sometime later we were moved to a different open…

This is both hilarious and terrifying at the same time. Thanks for being a hero.

Paradoxically the only person thanking the parent for going through this shit might be an anonymous commenter on an Internet forum...

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#618

Post by hdjjhhvvhga »

starttoaster wrote: post #578
wizofaus wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a definition of "team" I've never heard before - "people working on unrelated things".

Pretty common in “DevOps” teams, in my experience. Some people are working on some autoscaling CI runner server initiative, some are working on writing code, some are fixing issues in CI pipelines, some are hardening the security of kubernetes clusters, etc. Their goals are completely unrelated to the others but is all work that falls under their team’s umbrella, and needs doing. Equally common in operations roles fo…

I have to admit I like these meetings. Yes, today I work on an autoscaling runner but tomorrow I'll be working on CI pipelines so it's (mildly) interesting to hear what is going on and specifically what kind of problems my colleagues are dealing with. And, last but not least, usually I can cover a few miles on my stationary bike before the meeting ends.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#619

Post by foobar_______ »

chasd00 wrote: post #388
eulgro wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this satire? If not I don't think that's a sustainable lifestyle.

The people two rungs up the ladder from me in my consulting job work like this, if not more so. They all have families and are PTA presidents and things so def not absentee parents or spouses. Some people just have a seemingly unending source of energy and ambition.

No, I'm sorry that's just not possible. I think they've done an excellent job tricking you and others into their ever present productivity.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#620

Post by mcv »

vitaflo wrote: post #511
mcv wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Discussions, yes, but discussions aren't for the standup meeting. Those are for informally updating everybody on what you're working on and whether you're stuck on anything. They lead to 1 on 1 meetings to solve those issues.

Anyone who cares what you’re working on can look at Jira. And if you’re stuck you shouldn’t be waiting for a meeting to tell people this. Standup are a total waste of time.

Jira never tells the entire story. And of course you can also reach out to people outside of the standup meeting, but that doesn't make them a waste of time. They can be quite effective, and they really do not take much time.
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