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80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

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Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#331

Post by awestroke »

floucky wrote: post #320
throwaway892238 wrote: post #60

I decided I will never again work in an office, for the rest of my life. It's a lifestyle choice. I refuse to put up with the B.S. anymore. I'm lucky that I've had a long career and my skills are very much in demand, so I will always be able to find a remote job somewhere. People doing jobs with more qualified candidates in the pool will probably have a harder time, and that sucks. For them, I hope they can band toge…

Don't you think full remote is kind of selfish? I mean, I also love it, but what about new hires and junior? How are they going to learn and improve if each time they have a question, they need to post it on slack and just wait...

Mentoring, pair programming, calls, code review, etc

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#332

Post by zamalek »

> In response, EY announced a fund in February 2022 to reimburse up to $800 per year for commuting, pet care and dependent care costs

I can understand dependant care being considered an "employee problem" in the strictest causal sense, so it's amazing that this is considered. That being said, childcare can cost up to $3000/mo - so $800/yr is woefully inadequate.

Commute costs are another story entirely. If I were to entertain RTO (which I wouldn't), my commute time would be paid time. If being in the office is considered a job function, then by definition I should be paid while performing that function. Me doing that for free effectively cuts my salary by 20% (for a 2hour commute on top of 8hours). Furthermore, $800 is a drop in the bucket compared to the cost of fuel and maintenance - another free benefit that employers enjoy.

$800/yr doesn't cut it, not even close - especially if the employee is using that benefit for all the purposes listed.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#333

Post by Thlom »

laserlight wrote: post #280
dt3ft wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only this would make me consider going back to the office: a 5 hour workday, paid as 8. The 3 remaining hours would be compensating for the commute, which includes the time to get dressed. Commuting costs and food should be compensated as well. Nothing else. Even with the above, I would still prefer a hybrid or remote positions as long as I have a choice. Standing on a crowded train is not something I want to do ever…

> which includes the time to get dressed Thanks for mentioning this. It drives me crazy how people think of commute time as the time their engines are running, whereas the overhead of doing so is relatively significant.

Do you guys actually WFH in your underpants?

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#334

Post by arkey »

HellDunkel wrote: post #322
lamontcg wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I find it funny that when people were required to be home, employers talked about what great productivity they were getting with people at home. Then when it isn't required anymore, they want everyone back in the office for...productivity. The decades of evidence that open office plans are utter shit for productivity already proved that the emperor wears no clothes and they have no idea what makes for better produc…

100%. And don‘t forget about the useless standup meetings which are nothing more than a complete waste of time.

Why do you think standup meetings are useless? Maybe they are not run properly? I find them to be a pillar of our workday, within our team.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#335

Post by ngetchell »

zamalek wrote: post #332

> In response, EY announced a fund in February 2022 to reimburse up to $800 per year for commuting, pet care and dependent care costs I can understand dependant care being considered an "employee problem" in the strictest causal sense, so it's amazing that this is considered. That being said, childcare can cost up to $3000/mo - so $800/yr is woefully inadequate. Commute costs are another story entirely. If I were to…

I don't see why my employer needs to cover 100% of my expenses for the benefit to be useful. They are paying me extra money to try to convince me to come into the office. Especially when they can just change their policy to force me to come in without the added benefit.

Tuition reimbursement doesn't cover the total cost of college classes but I'm still glad they provide it!

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#336

Post by d-s »

re-thc wrote: post #254
kadoban wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That doesn't work for everyone. Some offices are louder than headphones Depending on your budget, you can block out anything short of jackhammers with either IEMs or earbuds+noise reduction earmuffs. > and some people come around tapping your shoulders regardless Do they expect to continue living? What monsters.

> Depending on your budget, you can block out anything short of jackhammers with either IEMs or earbuds+noise reduction earmuffs. Perhaps more a personal thing but it induces a dizziness/ drowsiness with extended use. It’s fine when watching say a movie but I could never work for long periods with my ears blocked. Wonder if I’m the only 1 but I have heard of similar cases.

It’s quite common. I own only open headphones due to this

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#337

Post by throwaway949124 »

throwaway892238 wrote: post #60

I decided I will never again work in an office, for the rest of my life. It's a lifestyle choice. I refuse to put up with the B.S. anymore. I'm lucky that I've had a long career and my skills are very much in demand, so I will always be able to find a remote job somewhere. People doing jobs with more qualified candidates in the pool will probably have a harder time, and that sucks. For them, I hope they can band toge…

I made a similar decision. I decided I will never ever work in an open-plan office ever again. However, I guess I would be ok with working in an office, if an employer offered offices with 4 walls, a door and a window with some natural light.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#338

Post by catmanjan »

dougmwne wrote: post #315
closeparen wrote: post #153

I have a new conspiracy theory on RTO in Big Tech. Much has been said about commercial real estate. But I think getting highly capable people to work hard for you is a difficult problem & something tech executives put a lot of thought into. If you don't pay people enough, someone else will. But if you pay them too much, they'll become financially independent. Mid six figures is an objectively life-changing amount of…

Yes, I think you’ve really got it there. The federal government is absolutely trying to orchestrate this situation for the benefit of companies. They try to keep unemployment at a sweet spot number where not too many people are living on the street, but companies have a pliable and plentiful labor pool. It’s achieved through a careful balance of monetary policy, taxes, immigration, education, and laws limiting reprod…

Is it really possible for an individual to “build wealth” without exploiting the working class

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#339

Post by stevezsa8 »

pennaMan wrote: post #314
stevezsa8 wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When we returned to the office, my boss decided even a single day WFH was frowned upon. Having to beg to stay home for a dentist appointment became a big ordeal. But my boss was a bit unhinged before covid. I found it funny that my lockdown productivity suddenly counted for nothing. I have friends at other companies who have been 3 days per week WFH for 2 years and really appreciate the flexibility.

I hope the past tense means you're not working at that hell hole anymore

Yeah I did in fact quit that place.

My main gripe was that my manager seemed to be having mental health issues (manic over-talking and occasional hints of psychosis). WFH was what helped me last through the covid years as I could avoid her being sat near me.

I was good friends with many people there, some of us still occasionally meetup. And I hear of a steady stream of other developers leavings because they can't work from home any more. Usually it's the younger guys who just had a kid or people with long commutes.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#340

Post by everdrive »

deaddodo wrote: post #141
lamontcg wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I find it funny that when people were required to be home, employers talked about what great productivity they were getting with people at home. Then when it isn't required anymore, they want everyone back in the office for...productivity. The decades of evidence that open office plans are utter shit for productivity already proved that the emperor wears no clothes and they have no idea what makes for better produc…

Open offices are the literal reason (after commuting/traffic) that I no longer want to go into the office. My work doesn't require a ton of person:person engagement and it's much easier for me to just zone out in my own headspace to do it. When I was required in the office, I would just wear headphones to avoid distractions, but I would have to deal with 2-3hrs of driving/day on top of it. This meant that my employer…

I remember the first time I was in an open office. I was flabbergasted. We'd all get on a call so we could talk to some remote vendor. Other people would have their mics on, so I'd hear my own voice repeated and delayed through the Zoom call. I could barely talk, and barely hear anyone. It was a self-evidently terrible decision that everyone was just going along with. Sometime later we were moved to a different open office space. It was deafeningly loud in there, and I eventually discovered that there was a white noise machine on the ceiling above every single employees head. Apparently this was meant to help with the open office design, but it did the opposite: much like a busy cafeteria, everyone had to shout over top the all the extra noise in the room. (the combined sound of about 100 white noise speakers + the sound of about 100 employees talking or working) Again, such a stupid decision I can barely understand how someone could set it up this way. I eventually just waited 'til no one was around and unplugged most of the speakers. It was a huge improvement, and no one complained.
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