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Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

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Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#611

Post by minsc_and_boo »

tomschlick wrote: post #208
coldpie wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google needs to be broken up. To make it explicit: the only way this happens is by Americans voting for it. The FTC has been more active on anti-trust issues in the past two years than at any time in the past 30. That's a direct result of the 2020 election. Elections matter.

The FTC isn't going to do anything as Google/Alphabet is a big donor to the Democrats. https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/alphabet-inc/recipients?id=... Here is them lobbying specifically around antitrust reform legislation: https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobbying/bills/specific_...

You're right, but not because of politics.

FTC is on a losing streak, with the latest fiasco being the Microsoft Activision acquisition fiasco.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#612

Post by matkoniecz »

solardev wrote: post #603
tolmasky wrote: post #197

Mozilla should call for Google's removal from the W3C over this implementation of Web Environment Integrity. "But Chrome has 65% market share, what good is the W3C without them?” If Google can take unilateral action to fundamentally change the basic principles of the web, then the W3C is already useless. This will give Google a clear choice: if they want to maintain the idea that the W3C matters, they should withdraw…

It's far, far too late for this. The W3C is already irrelevant, not that it ever mattered much. The internet is made by big companies. Not standards bodies. The WHATWG has the actual living standards, and Google, Apple, Cloudflare and Amazon make the actual software. Nobody cares about the W3C. And Mozilla is long past dead.

> And Mozilla is long past dead.

Mozilla is far from healthy but calling it dead is overstating things.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#613

Post by whywhywhywhy »

nvm0n1 wrote: post #574
kalleboo wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's double-think, it's just a lack of consequential thinking. I believe the writers of the spec when they say that they just want to be able to see which ad views are real or not. They even lay out some (far too weak) ideas to keep the system from being mandatory and abusable. But they don't realize just how quickly things will go out of hand once the rest of the organization realizes what they have cr…

[flagged]

>1. Apple GateKeeper. "End of the Mac as a general purpose compute platform is nigh", >10 years later, you can still run whatever apps you want.

We ignoring that they now, as of the last 2 years claim unsigned apps are "Broken" and need to be "Moved to the Trash" instead of just "Unsafe" with an "Open" command?

They're moving at snails pace but there are people working at Apple trying to force the hands of devs into an iOS like system.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#614

Post by Dracophoenix »

nologic01 wrote: post #590
mozball wrote: post #26

If this isn't the straw that breaks the camel's back, there is never going to be one. Google needs to be broken up. They own the browser market. They own the web (through Adwords). They own Search. They own mobile. They own most of the video sharing market with 2.5 billion monthly annual users. They own a good chunk of email with 1.2 billion monthly annual users. They have amassed an incomprehensible amount of power…

> Google needs to be broken up. Not going to happen. Rationally there should be broad political consensus about cutting Google back to size: from rabid libertarians worshiping the miraculous abundance generated by "competition and free markets" to bleeding-heart socialists keen on pushing back corporate power as the root of all evil. Alas, these political categories no longer have any meaning. The US political system…

> Will they accept that their digital society will be feudal in nature because the broken US political system cannot deliver on even basic responsibilities?

The Germans, British, Australians and French are also attempting to build their own panopticons.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#615

Post by minsc_and_boo »

strix_varius wrote: post #537
mardifoufs wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should the US break up an asset like Google? Would be completely self defeating. This isn't like standard oil or at&t, that mostly had influence and market share inside the US. It would basically be handing power to foreign competitors who would pounce at the opportunity And I'm not American so it's not even some sort of patriotic comment. If Europe , or anywhere else, had a Google sized Behemoth, they wouldn't m…

> Why should the US break up an asset like Google? Would be completely self defeating. Because in the short term it would disrupt a major company (ala Standard Oil), but in the long term it would allow the US to remain competitive in the global market. If we allow Google to continue abusing its monopoly power in the US, that guarantees that the US will not be the home of the future technologies of the world. Innovati…

Tech competitiveness relies on network effects. Breaking up tech would just cede marketshare to companies like ByteDance and Baidu.

Any successful US-based tech post-breakup would be acquired by larger international players, like Tiktok was.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#616

Post by solardev »

matkoniecz wrote: post #612
solardev wrote: post #603

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's far, far too late for this. The W3C is already irrelevant, not that it ever mattered much. The internet is made by big companies. Not standards bodies. The WHATWG has the actual living standards, and Google, Apple, Cloudflare and Amazon make the actual software. Nobody cares about the W3C. And Mozilla is long past dead.

> And Mozilla is long past dead. Mozilla is far from healthy but calling it dead is overstating things.

It's only alive in the same sense that a zombie is... constantly moaning and groaning while begging for brains, shambling aimlessly along waiting to be put out of its misery

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#618

Post by tolmasky »

izacus wrote: post #419
tolmasky wrote: post #197

Mozilla should call for Google's removal from the W3C over this implementation of Web Environment Integrity. "But Chrome has 65% market share, what good is the W3C without them?” If Google can take unilateral action to fundamentally change the basic principles of the web, then the W3C is already useless. This will give Google a clear choice: if they want to maintain the idea that the W3C matters, they should withdraw…

It didn't happen when Apple did it with Safari (and you all were quiet as a mouse as well, with HN actively defending Apple Safari monopoly with this feature enabled)... so why would NOW be any different?

I am not HN, you'll find no comment of mine defending that (despite, for the record, Apple's system being less bad than this one, while still bad).

NOW would be different because, again, this system is worse than Apple's, and because Chrome has a larger influence on the web than Safari (on Desktop, on mobile its a foregone conclusion since you're not allowed a different engine other than Safari anyways, so the real fight there is allowing third party engines).

Does this answer your concerns? I can't tell if you are defending Apple and Google, or are against both but are using this what-about-ist accusation as a way to vent general frustration.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#620

Post by returningfory2 »

mdibaiee wrote: post #354
encody wrote: post #186

It's small, but here's a real actionable item that you can do to help: Put a gentle "Use Firefox" (or any other non-Chromium-based browser) message on your website. It doesn't have to be in-your-face, just something small. I've taken my own advice and added it to my own website: https://geeklaunch.io/ (It only appears on Chromium-based browsers.) We can slowly turn the tide, little by little.

For people who want to put something like this, here is the code snippet: This website is designed for Firefox , a web browser that respects your privacy. if (window.chrome) { document.getElementById('browser').className = ''; } Class .hidden must hide the element somehow, in this case I do: .hidden { display: none; }

Thanks for the code! I would slightly change the phrasing. "This website is designed for X" is traditionally, in my opinion, a user-hostile statement which indicates the user has to do something to accommodate the website. "We recommend you use Firefox, a web browser that respects your privacy" or something doesn't have this vibe IMO.
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