Earlier quoted context omitted.
'Telemetry? who needs it' - Oceangate, probably
There is no way to transmit telemetry to the surface anyway.
Sound. There are commercially available acoustic modems for underwater use.
Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers
611–620 of 1001 posts
Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers
#612Earlier quoted context omitted.
He's also on record as saying things like, " It's obscenely safe because they have all these regulations. But it also hasn't innovated or grown — because they have all these regulations. " ( https://www.insider.com/titan-submarine-ceo-complained-about... )
He seemed especially proud about combining titanium and carbon fibre against the advice of others, which seems to now have been in a pretty active role in the demise of the Titan. > "I'd like to be remembered as an innovator. I think it was General MacArthur who said "you're remembered for the rules you break." And I've broken some rules to make this. I think I've broken them with logic and good engineering behind me…
Well, he now will be remembered, just for inevitable Darwin award
Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers
#613Earlier quoted context omitted.
Good video. Some excerpts: "If you're not breaking things, you're not innovating. If you're operating in a known environment as most submersible manufacturers do, they don't break things." (8:49) "Our rule is we risk capital, we don't risk people." (9:56) "We used the same prepreg that's used on the 787." (11:15) And my favorite: "When you're outside the box, it's really hard to tell how far outside the box you reall…
Now might be a good time to revisit the "calling yourself an engineer" means something specifically debate.
I’ve seen it said you’re not an engineer unless your job and/or life is on the line, under which standard he’d qualify.
Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers
#614Stockton Rush (OceanGate's CEO) was known in the Seattle tech community [0] My understanding (very much not first hand) is that he was seen as an expert in the specific engineering disciplines necessary to safely build and operate deep sea submersibles like Titan. He was also apparently a father to members of the Seattle tech community, who are no doubt grieving at the moment. Please remember that, for some members o…
I don’t see any members of HN standing up for Stockton Rush. Nor do I imagine they would after his carelessness killed several people.
Being seen as an expert doesn’t mean you are one, and it’s unfortunate the Seattle tech community didn’t have a better role model to look up to.
Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers
#615What really bothers me about the coverage of this, and I'm not totally anti media etc, was that nobody mentioned on the fact that the tracking system lost contact also. It was only mentioned that the communications was lost, if there had of been media mentioning that the tracking device also lost contact, I think a lot of people would have recognised straight await that it was a critical collapse. No deep gauge devic…
More than that, one report mentioned the US Navy notified the search teams that they heard an explosion Sunday night and used it to limit the search area.
The US Navy has literally has experience detecting underwater explosions (see project Azorian). It's not guaranteed of course, but any loud sound near the point of contact loss seems pretty open shut.
Imo, it made a more interesting story in a slow news cycle. How many people died in car accidents the last few days? Has to be more than 5.
Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers
#616Earlier quoted context omitted.
The most puzzling aspect, from what I understand from the experts, if it imploded at time and depth you are suggesting it would have been very likely to be registered by at least the controlling ship due to the noise. As you highlighted the sub is pretty large, imploding in a millisecond causes huge effects in the surroundings. So saying it got lost and imploded after a few days solves two problems. Explains why ther…
> Explains why there was no implosion noise originally, We don't know that. There's a chance a noise was recorded but it wasn't made public in order not to compromise rescue attempts.
It turns out that it’s exactly what happened.
Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers
#617Earlier quoted context omitted.
Good video. Some excerpts: "If you're not breaking things, you're not innovating. If you're operating in a known environment as most submersible manufacturers do, they don't break things." (8:49) "Our rule is we risk capital, we don't risk people." (9:56) "We used the same prepreg that's used on the 787." (11:15) And my favorite: "When you're outside the box, it's really hard to tell how far outside the box you reall…
The question are: Why use novel vessels when tried and true work. Why did they have to try a carbon-fiber wrapped vessel? The bathysphere went all the way down to the Marianas trench --many decades ago. Why try something new in unforgiving environments? Why fire an engineer after he started raising questions about safety? It seems like there was a bit of a cavalier attitude that cost five people their lives.
I don't believe that one was particularly safe in its design either? Just quoting the most colorful parts of Wikipedia's history:
- "Oxygen was supplied from high-pressure cylinders carried inside the sphere, while pans of soda lime [hn: sodium hydroxide?] and calcium chloride were mounted inside the sphere's walls to absorb exhaled CO2 and moisture.[6] Air was to be circulated past these trays by the Bathysphere's occupants using palm-leaf fans.[2]"
- "Suddenly, without the slightest warning, the bolt was torn from our hands, and the mass of heavy metal shot across the deck like the shell from a gun. The trajectory was almost straight, and the brass bolt hurtled into the steel winch thirty feet [9.1 m] away across the deck and sheared a half-inch [13 mm] notch gouged out by the harder metal. This was followed by a solid cylinder of water, which slackened after a while into a cataract, pouring out the hole in the door, some air mingled with the water, looking like hot steam, instead of compressed air shooting through ice-cold water.[6]"
- "The ocean during this dive was rougher than it had been during any of their previous dives, and as the Freedom rocked on the surface, its motion was transmitted down the steel cable, causing the Bathysphere to swing from side to side like a pendulum. As the Bathysphere descended, Barton succumbed to seasickness and vomited inside it. However, the first half of the radio transmission had already been broadcast, and neither Beebe nor Barton wished to cancel its second half, so they continued their descent.[5] ... the Bathysphere was still rocking wildly and Beebe and Barton were both bruised and bleeding from being knocked about inside it."
- "During their first test dive, they demanded to be pulled up after descending only four feet (1.2 m) because the sphere had begun to leak; they soon discovered this was because Tee-Van had neglected to fasten all of the bolts that hold the hatch shut.[2] Another problem occurred on their second test dive, during which they discovered that the lower end of the rubber hose holding the power cable and phone line had begun to deteriorate, and they spent the rest of the day reversing the hose's direction so that the end which was deteriorating would be the end above the water.[5]"
Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers
#618Earlier quoted context omitted.
I really couldn't care less. As far as I can see he was exactly what's wrong with people chasing money and forgetting about the possible consequences of their attitude towards other people's lives. I'm sure his relatives are grieving, but my sympathy goes to the family of the passengers first. As for the CEO's credentials: nature can't be fooled.
Agreed. By my estimation he committed manslaughter with his recklessness. He's every bit as bad a drunk driver that kills 4 people in an accident.
Shit take. A drunk driver kills uninvolved people. The people on the sub knew (most) of the risks.
Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers
#619Earlier quoted context omitted.
I hope the other souls onboard fully understood the risk of death, otherwise that isn't fair to them. To relate it to flying in an airplane, “If you take one flight a day, you would on average need to fly every day for 55,000 years before being involved in a fatal crash.” I'll take those odds. Take a deep dive in an experimental vessel with public safety concerns expressed over years, nope I'm out.
It also looked so terribly janky. I feel like all the lights were flashing red for this craft, but maybe people were swayed by assurances from people who were a bit too enthusiastic about their product.
Billionaires get to the money by the art of charisma and bullshitting so it is entirely possible they got bullshitted all the way to the bottom on that too
Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers
#620Earlier quoted context omitted.
Both will be lost at the same time. We don't really know such signal. Submarines cannot communicate more hundred meters in the bottom of sea. Sea water absorbs the signal quite well. When the signal is lost, the expectation is that the submarine is under the water. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communication_with_submarines
> Submarines cannot communicate more hundred meters in the bottom of sea. Sorry if I am misunderstanding you. It sounds like you are saying that it is impossible to design a system which would be able to keep in contact with the submarine/submersible all the way down to the bottom? Because if that is what you are saying that is simply false. We have the technology to keep in contact with a submarine all the way to th…
If you read the article, you know that the context was extremely specific and not suitable for general use.
The noise is too big problem.
In ”normal” context such signal is not currently known to be really possible. You know that submarines are not equipped with these.
The ship on the surface had to drop cable 100 meters below the ship to combat noise. Which means that for communication to be possible, ship cannot really move. And the ship is supposed to be almost directly above the submarine, to reduce the noise again.
For signal to be practical, it should go either over the surface or go long distances horizontally and be usable even with some noise.