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Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

cnbc.com

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Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#611

Post by nerdawson »

dmix wrote: post #501
clnq wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to me that calling it a "recall" emphasises the severity of the problem, which might make it easier to argue that a lot is being done for customer safety to the interested authorities. But I don't think Tesla wants this to be seen more than an OTA update from the perspective of their customers (at least those who ignore Tesla news). I had a VW car that was "recalled" shortly following the emissions scandal.…

The industry needs to come up with a new related term like "Software Recall" Recalling the hardware is a drastically more difficult request to impose on customers and financially/logistically for the car maker. That's a disporportate response just to highlight importance of an OTA update.

Mandatory Software Update?

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#612

Post by brandonagr2 »

clnq wrote: post #481
diebeforei485 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recall implies something being returned. This should be called a mandatory software patch, or something like that. The problem is Tesla owners repeatedly see "recall" to mean "software update", so this might lead to a lot of confusion if a physical recall is actually required in the future.

It seems to me that calling it a "recall" emphasises the severity of the problem, which might make it easier to argue that a lot is being done for customer safety to the interested authorities. But I don't think Tesla wants this to be seen more than an OTA update from the perspective of their customers (at least those who ignore Tesla news). I had a VW car that was "recalled" shortly following the emissions scandal.…

There is a big difference between taking a car to a dealership for them to apply an update, and the car updating itself overnight as it sits in the garage with no action required by the owner.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#614

Post by normaljoe »

dmix wrote: post #514
jjcon wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla publishes their safety data quarterly no need for your many assumptions and speculations - Teslas are already much safer than the average driver, especially when autopilot is on https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport

One interesting bit from a different 3rd party study: > Cambridge Mobile Telematics also found that people driving Teslas were 21% less likely to engage in distracted driving with their phone in their Tesla compared to when they drove their other car. Maybe the software integration helps avoid this? Lots of other cars have much more complicated interfaces to hook up calls and reading texts. My mom struggled to figure…

> Maybe the software integration helps avoid this?

With auto pilot on the car is watching you. If you take eyes off the road it issues more pay attention nags. Failure to comply removes FSD Beta. So you have a feedback loop where paying attention becomes more important then your phone.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#615

Post by buffington »

indigodaddy wrote: post #226
xdavidliu wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One can kill people the other not. No, that's not correct. Whether it can kill people or not is orthogonal to whether it's a true physical recall of the car or a software update.

I think that it’s more about using the most appropriate known terminology in order to try to get the most people to do the needful. “recall” sounds more urgent/dire than “software update”, and will likely encourage many more people to take action vs using “software update” or some less familiar terminology. The word “recall” in terms of autos has built up a lot of history/prior art in people’s minds as something to r…

> The word “recall” in terms of autos has built up a lot of history/prior art in people’s minds as something to really pay attention to

Tesla didn't choose the word "recall." The legal process known as "recall" chose the word. It's not like people at Tesla debated over whether or not to call it a "recall" instead of a "software update."

If Tesla had it their way, they'd have quietly slipped it into any other regular software update alongside updates to the stupid farting app, if they cared to fix it at all.

When a company issues a recall, it's because there's pressure from regulators, or investors, or both, and/or a risk of class action lawsuits and fines. Using the word "recall" isn't a preference or even a synonym. It's a legal move meant to protect them.

If Tesla gets sued over a flaw, "we issued a software update" isn't legally defensible. "We cooperated with official government bodies to conduct a recall," does because a recall describes an official process that requires manufacturers do very specific things in specific ways as prescribed by law. In exchange, manufacturers are legally protected (usually) from lawsuits related to that flaw.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#616

Post by ScottEvtuch »

jlv2 wrote: post #154

There really needs to be a distinction between an actual recall (my Model S had one to change the latch on the frunk) and this type of "recall" that is nothing more than an OTA software update.

I think this is splitting hairs. Would it still be a recall if a mechanic drives to your house to fix a mechanical problem?

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#617

Post by brandonagr2 »

johannes1234321 wrote: post #437
tsgagnon wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? It involves a safety system! That needs to be tracked publicly and updated! Nothing more than an OTA - does not mean much when everything is fly by wire and a bug could mean your car does not stop accelerating or something. True, but by announcing things in this fashion it is making Tesla look bad. Regulations really need to be updated so that car makers can hide this type of problem from customers as easily as…

> True, but by announcing things in this fashion it is making Tesla look bad. They rolled out software with critical safety issues. They have to be called out.

There is no critical safety issue, the driver is always in control of the vehicle.

Are you saying it's a critical safety issue to depend on a human driver? The same as in every vehicle on the road?

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#618

Post by jeffrallen »

b1zguy wrote: post #294
mometsi wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anybody else reminded of that story where the guy gets a sketchy neural implant, then goes to a dystopian mars settlement, and then rips the self-driving feature out of a car with his bare hands? What was that called again? / puts on sunglasses preemptively/

Um, what is it?

I Don't Recall

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#620

Post by brandonagr2 »

freejazz wrote: post #432
tsgagnon wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? It involves a safety system! That needs to be tracked publicly and updated! Nothing more than an OTA - does not mean much when everything is fly by wire and a bug could mean your car does not stop accelerating or something. True, but by announcing things in this fashion it is making Tesla look bad. Regulations really need to be updated so that car makers can hide this type of problem from customers as easily as…

> it is making Tesla look bad Maybe Tesla should stop doing things that result in it receiving poor publicity? just a thought

Tesla should continue doing what's best to accomplish the company mission and making vehicles safer by improving automation.

Why should a companies actions be dictated by PR and media news cycles?

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