Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#611

Post by andrei_says_ » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 7:19 AM UTC

pezdeath wrote: post #108

andrei_says_ wrote: post #28

Why? Because of the already sunk cost into office space? Any other reasons? I know I can drive 40 min and stare at the same laptop and email/zoom with the same people. What’s in it for me? All I see is unnecessary agony, and a lot of it. I produce more from home. Why does an employer want me to suffer more, even if it will cost them? What’s in it for them?

Not everyone's an engineer. Lots of roles work better in person.

Could you provide some examples?

I am speaking of roles who successfully performed 100% of their work from home in the last year.

Also, why are engineers being forced to come back to the office?

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#612

Post by hawthornio » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 7:20 AM UTC

tdeck wrote: post #504

I never thought I'd handle WFH well. When job-hunting, I'd always ignore fully remote jobs. It sounded totally depressing and demotivating to sit at home and interact with my coworkers virtually. I also always valued the office perks. During the first few months, it felt like WFH stripped out all the non-work aspects of my job. At Google those perks were substantial, and it put the work itself in full focus. But you…

how do you measure your minutes of focused work?

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#613

Post by andrei_says_ » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 7:21 AM UTC

gfodor wrote: post #312

andrei_says_ wrote: post #28

Why? Because of the already sunk cost into office space? Any other reasons? I know I can drive 40 min and stare at the same laptop and email/zoom with the same people. What’s in it for me? All I see is unnecessary agony, and a lot of it. I produce more from home. Why does an employer want me to suffer more, even if it will cost them? What’s in it for them?

Seeing yourself produce more doesn't imply the net impact is positive. Because working from home (using 2020-era tools) greatly reduces social presence [1], which may be undermining team work, creative thinking, etc. I'm a 100% remote work maximalist, I think in the long run physical offices for creative work will be non-existent. However, the fact is that the tools we have today are about 5-10 years behind where the…

When working from the office I would not really speak face to face with teammembers - many of my colleagues are in different cities.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#614

Post by yread » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 7:22 AM UTC

threeseed wrote: post #498

foogazi wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are also plenty of people who like their coworkers and enjoy spending time with them each day. Not saying you are wrong, but The vast majority of people first get jobs to earn money THEN meet the coworkers AND having no other option besides interacting with coworkers during work hours, will try to get along

The vast majority of IT people in Silicon Valley can yell on the street and get a job. So then it becomes which company has the best culture, values, people, environment etc.

Why do so many people work at ad and spyware companies then?

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#615

Post by andrei_says_ » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 7:22 AM UTC

newsclues wrote: post #185

akomtu wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A wild guess: execs supplement their income by having stakes in food/rent businesses around the HQ offices. If employees don't come, those businesses will lose customers and the execs will suffer. I mean, if you were such an exec and knew the corp is about to build a large office somewhere, wouldn't you buy 40-60% stakes in key businesses there while they are cheap? And wouldn't you cry wolf if the new office never o…

Classic vending machine contracts!

Ah yes those. Le Cruix here I come.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#616

Post by mssundaram » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 7:22 AM UTC

Solvitieg wrote: post #155

k-mcgrady wrote: post #60

"Cook wrapped up the memo by saying that he's looking forward to seeing employee faces. "I know I'm not alone in missing the hum of activity, the energy, creativity and collaboration of our in-person meetings and the sense of community we've all built," he wrote." CEO's all spout the same nonsense. The majority of people work because they need to earn money. They're not working to make a new 'family' or change the wo…

Considering that we spend most of our day doing this "work" thing, I find it much more tolerable to view my coworkers as close friends and my career as an opportunity. This is especially easy in such a privileged sector as tech where pay is excellent, office life is compelling, and work is challenging and exciting. I don't know how people survive day-to-day with a perspective like yours. I get that people can get ful…

Have you ever been fired from your family? For some that analogy has happened, but for most people it's an exception, but for a job it's a much more real possibility. I'm a mercenary at my job. No allegiance but to my interests, because the leadership and shareholders have the same perspective

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#617

Post by ls15 » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 7:23 AM UTC

heavyset_go wrote: post #196

Nbox9 wrote: post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

> I save money by spending less on food, drinks, and electricity. For those of us who have to commute, it's not exactly the norm to be saving money while commuting. Commutes are responsible for a 10% drop in hourly wages[1], and the median commute time results in spending 10 full days commuting a year. The average commuter in one of the largest metro areas in the country will spend over 13 full days commuting a year:…

Private transport is also one of the biggest sources of greenhouse gas emissions.

Reducing daily commute seems like a good way to improve our carbon footprint.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200317-climate-change-c...

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#618

Post by Cookingboy » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 7:23 AM UTC

KingOfCoders wrote: post #492

radec wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm glad others are shocked by that $60/day on food. I would say food takes up the largest percentage of my expenses and $60 is easily 5 days worth of food for two.

Same here. $60 is basically our two-people weekly shopping.

And those two people likely don't eat remotely as well as Facebook or Google employees.

Even if you value your labor/time to cook to be worth of zero dollars, when I was at Google my cafe had fresh seafood (a rotation of different types of fish, scallops, shrimps, mussel, crab, etc) and good quality regular meat dish (I particularly liked the skirt steak with guacamole), great vegan/vegetarian options, in-house made desserts including fresh made chocolate truffles every day prepared by the chef.

And that's just lunch, at one cafe, not including breakfast and dinner and options at the other 3 dozens cafes on campus.

If you can recreate all of that for two people with a $60/week budget, then kudos to you. I know I can't.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#619

Post by freyr » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 7:23 AM UTC

NoblePublius wrote: post #264

We’ve been back in the office since September 2020 with masks. We are now a mask free workplace as of two days ago if you are vaccinated. Any delay to return to normalcy at this point is absurd.

One could argue that spending 2 hours a day in traffic or $1.75M+ for a modest house is more absurd.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#620

Post by bumbada » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 7:24 AM UTC

rubicon33 wrote: post #251

Nbox9 wrote: post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

This is what most of the newcomers to WFH don't understand: There is a big different between WFH for a few months where EVERYONE else is also WFH ... and WFH for YEARS where some, or most, of the others are in office. The latter is years upon years of feeling disconnected, left out, and sidelined. The vast majority of companies even if they allow remote are not remote first. Remote first involves actual structural an…

You are speaking about your personal experience. You never wanted to work remotely, you never prepared for it and as a result it has been a traumatic experience for you.

On the other hand there is people out there, like me, that have been improving and refining remote working skills from decades.

When I traveled to former Soviet Republics it shocked me how helpless old people felt doing the most basic things. As young people they were trained to delegate everything on the State. The State did a very bad job almost at everything but there was no alternative, so they never developed the skills .

When they were old,it is difficult to learn anything new and they had not the necessary skills to survive on their own and were nostalgic about communism.

That made me realize that most schools and Universities and jobs just train you to obey orders and do not leave space for resourcefulness and independence.