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Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

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Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#611

Post by globular-toast »

mrshadowgoose wrote: post #576
Tiktaalik wrote: post #436

Switching to electric cars from ICE cars is continuing to do the wrong thing and make the wrong choices, but doing this wrong thing a bit better. It's still the same status quo, woefully terrible and unsustainable transportation model. Automobile oriented transportation doesn't scale, is a huge waste of resources, and perpetuates unsustainable, ultra expensive and resource intensive sprawling urban development patter…

Most humans enjoy being comfortable. Costs (financial and ecological) ignored, it's safe to say that a large portion of the population would choose to proceed quickly from point A to B in the comfort of a private enclosed vehicle. Obviously this desire needs to be balanced with environmental protection, practicality and accommodation of those who legitimately want to cycle or walk. There are a few technologies coming…

People are only comfortable in cars because they've learned to be. Before I owned a car and cycled every day I didn't once think it was uncomfortable and that I'd rather be in a car. My body was used to it.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#612

Post by globular-toast »

fvdessen wrote: post #307

Cycling is not only good for the environment, but for cities in general. During the last confinement, when car traffic completely stopped, I realised that cars are the single biggest reason why living in the city can be unpleasant. People may not realise it consciously, but when they move out of the city, what they are looking for is a place with not as much cars driving around. Cars destroy cities by making a viciou…

Completely agree. A few years ago there was a couple of weeks of bad weather which meant nobody was driving around where I lived and it was wonderful. Then after it all melted it went straight back to normal: noisy, loud, dangerous and angry.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#613

Post by Laarlf »

Daho0n wrote: post #378
Laarlf wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I look at European city centers where cars often times get thrown out now and: they don’t agree. Profits were way down even before COVID. Even if you offer people the option to not use their car, they will avoid it. No form of transportation will ever be as pleasant to use. Cars don’t make cities unpleasant, cities themselves are unpleasant. No matter if cars exist or not. Bikes, pedestrians and cars must be properly…

This reads like an American talking about European cities.

I live in Germany near the Ruhrgebiet.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#614

Post by aikinai »

geoduck14 wrote: post #532
browningstreet wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived in the Dutch suburbs and everything you say can’t be done on a bike were pretty normal there. I think people think bikes don’t work because they’re thinking about the problem, as opposed to trying through the problem.

Ok, I'll bite. How do I get my family to church? 4 kids between 1 and 6. 6 miles from home. It would be nice if we didn't smell when we arrived.

If cities weren’t designed around cars, your church wouldn’t be six miles away in the first place.

People in non-auto-centric countries all over the world take their families to church and everywhere else you listed.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#615

Post by Gibbon1 »

groaner wrote: post #602
blix wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pre-covid world is kinda over. Density has very clear downsides that have never been more apparent. I don't know how often you do the train + car rental thing, but the friction is much, much higher than driving (especially if you have any sort of gear like you would for skiing). Not everyone wants to be so contricted both in freedom of movement and in living space.

Blaming disease spread on density is kind of a cop out after how we saw the world respond to crisis. Singapore, Taipei, Hong Kong, and most Chinese cities are super dense places that, for most of 2020, I would have preferred to be living in compared to the US.

You can look at San Francisco which did better than most places in the US. It was actually funny to watch tech bro's flee the city for places where the pandemic ultimately hit far worse.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#616

Post by Laarlf »

rossng wrote: post #344
Laarlf wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I look at European city centers where cars often times get thrown out now and: they don’t agree. Profits were way down even before COVID. Even if you offer people the option to not use their car, they will avoid it. No form of transportation will ever be as pleasant to use. Cars don’t make cities unpleasant, cities themselves are unpleasant. No matter if cars exist or not. Bikes, pedestrians and cars must be properly…

Is there any evidence that removing cars from cities has a negative economic impact? All the stats I've seen point to the exact opposite. For example: * https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/publications-and-reports/econom... * https://cyclingsolutions.info/cost-benefit-of-cycling-infras... * https://cyclingindustry.news/724m-in-economic-benefit-on-80m... In my anecdotal experience from the UK, high streets have been destroye…

The only evidence i have is many cities around where i live tried to make driving to the city centers horrible, made parking expensive and not a long time afterwards the shops were almost regularly switching owners and contents. There are a lot of places empty now. Amazon likes the effort though.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#617

Post by yodelshady »

FpUser wrote: post #594
adrianN wrote: post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Car centric infrastructure forces people to own cars.

>"Car centric infrastructure forces people to own cars." Where? I live in Toronto and I certainly do not feel that I am forced to have a car.

Toronto where the previous mayor removed bike lanes, was caught reading a book whilst driving, and called cyclists "a pain in the ass"? That Toronto?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17914504

Yeah, that sounds a welcoming place.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#618

Post by zucker42 »

geoduck14 wrote: post #521
fvdessen wrote: post #307

Cycling is not only good for the environment, but for cities in general. During the last confinement, when car traffic completely stopped, I realised that cars are the single biggest reason why living in the city can be unpleasant. People may not realise it consciously, but when they move out of the city, what they are looking for is a place with not as much cars driving around. Cars destroy cities by making a viciou…

I've seen various threads promoting bicycles - and my life style is SO different that I can't conceive of using bikes and getting rid of my cars. I drive 6 miles to church. My kids are in the minivan and can't ride bikes yet. We also have stuff with us: diapers, water cups, snacks. My work (before WFH), is about 7 miles away. I could bike - but I take kids to day care, and they can't bike. Also, I can't wear "athleti…

I have a two part response to this. The first is that the goal of bike infrastructure is not to eliminate the car, but instead to give people the option of riding bikes when suitable. Some tasks (transporting large objects) will always be right for cars. But even getting families to shift to 1 car instead of two or three would be a huge resource saver.

But secondly, I would suggest a paradigm shift in how you think about things. You are probably right that for you, in the environment you live in, a bike is not the right choice. But an urban/suburban environment is not a fixed constant, so the question is why is your environment reliant on cars?

To respond to a few of your examples with this framework in mind.

- If your church and your work were closer, biking might make more sense. Suburban sprawl and zoning laws push things (housing, work, and amenities) apart that could be closer together.

- Your kids sound pretty young, but for when they get older if you lived in a place where it was safe to cycle alone, and their friends were closer to you, they could cycle to friends more easily. Unfortunately, with how things are, I wouldn't blame you for keeping them off the roads, as many U.S. roads are unsafe, especially for young kids.

- Again, it's not relevant until your kids are older, but the majority of Dutch children walk or bike to school, rather than being driven. From what I've seen, even elementary school aged kids will travel to school alone.

Now it could be that you just prefer the countryside, in which case of course bike infrastructure is irrelevant to you. But many people are more motivated only by a desire to avoid big cities in which case building out the "missing middle" between sparsely populated car dependent suburbia/countryside and dense urban centers could be the solution.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#619

Post by kostarelo »

rollcat wrote: post #309
kostarelo wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you consider it to be more dangerous than riding a bike? I'm always amazed by how skaters are able to stop or "hit the breaks" where there are none.

> Would you consider it to be more dangerous than riding a bike? Yes it is more dangerous, for the simple fact that falling on your back and slamming the back of your head on concrete is a very real and considerable danger, and its effects can be extremely severe. Skating helmets are shaped differently from bike helmets because of this one thing. It's not a common occurrence (I see people falling forward and injuring…

haha nice thanks, well I thought we were talking about casual every day commuting but you took it to the next level.

This is someone I know, he rides with his crew quite regularly and this video is from a hill in Greece near my hometown. https://www.instagram.com/p/CEzGpGnlzTh/

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#620

Post by dfgdghdf »

wj wrote: post #488
dfgdghdf wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Painted bike lanes do not feel safe enough to most potential cyclists so they don't lead to much modal shift.

What if they added posts? Either metal driven down into the road that a car would not go through or plastic ones that would deter a driver from running into them? I think that would provide more of a sense of physical separation.

They have been doing this in London. I think it makes a big difference! It also prevents people from parking in the bike lane.
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