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Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

reuters.com

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Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#611

Post by koheripbal »

winthrowe wrote: post #559
pmorici wrote: post #534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you cite any instance where a union representing blue collar workers has negotiated stock options or similar stock based compensation as part of their member's pay package?

Maybe someone else finds something more recent, but it looks like 20 years ago, unions got options at about half the rate of non union (table 1). https://smlr.rutgers.edu/sites/default/files/documents/facul...

That doesn't really say much, since non-union labor is usually better compensated, in general.

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#612

Post by koheripbal »

aphextron wrote: post #291
loceng wrote: post #287

How is anyone buying into the complete false statement/propaganda that what Elon said is a threat? Has anyone commenting here even read Elon's tweet in question? "Nothing stopping Tesla team at our car plant from voting union. Could do so tmrw if they wanted. But why pay union dues & give up stock options for nothing? Our safety record is 2X better than when plant was UAW & everybody already gets healthcare." - Elon,…

>"Nothing stopping Tesla team at our car plant from voting union. Could do so tmrw if they wanted. But why pay union dues & give up stock options for nothing? Our safety record is 2X better than when plant was UAW & everybody already gets healthcare." - Elon, https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/998454539941367808 This is literally textbook union busting BS. It's been the same line for 200 years.

> This is literally textbook union busting BS.

So any CEO saying that unions aren't wanted is "union busting"? This just seems like watering down the word until it means almost nothing.

There was a time when "union busting" meant literally busting striking member's heads.

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#613

Post by complexmango »

LB232323 wrote: post #572

Labor was once fighting for their rights with rifles and unprecedented multicultural unity. Workers knew their enemy very clearly and knew how to attain their goals. The alternative was starvation and corporate enslavement. Now the concern is deleting tweets. Embourgeoisiement has slowed and confused the struggle of labor. The reckoning of the owner class is long overdue, as evidenced by this typical hubris. In today…

Love the wink-wink nudge-nudge hint towards violence typical of the radical left, the planet over. The US is full of refugees from places that fought for 'workers rights' with 'rifles and multicultural unity' and never recovered. Check out all of South America, and even India, former USSR, China, etc.

Employment in the US is totally voluntary, with unemployment one of the lowest in the developed world, immense competition for tech talent, and you think this requires 'reckoning of the owner class' - which is often the SAME workers' 401k accounts?

What exactly is your ideal - that 'workers', who are also 'owners', fight themselves?

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#614

Post by tacitusarc »

anoncake wrote: post #602
tacitusarc wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tyranny of the majority is perhaps the reference?

Sure you could count every instance of someone not getting their will, which is unavoidable when decisions affect more than one person, as tyranny. But I don't think that's a very useful definition.

Sorry, I should have added a link in the previous comment. I think this is the reference: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority

I'm not trying to define anything, just trying to explain the reference.

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#615

Post by dang »

DudeInBasement wrote: post #7

If they want to work for the UAW, then they should join GM or other factories. Why join Tesla if you really wanted to work for the UAW?

You started a generic ideological flamewar with this comment. Please don't do that. They're repetitive, predictable, and tedious—and inevitably turn nasty.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#616

Post by dang »

kova12 wrote: post #46
boustrophedon wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And Tesla should be allowed every opportunity to stop them. We've tried this. People died over it. We enacted laws to prevent it from happening, so that labor can stand on equal ground with capital.

[flagged]

Please don't take HN threads further into generic ideological flamewar. It's extremely tedious and predictable and usually turns nasty. We're trying for something quite different on HN.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#617

Post by nybble41 »

anoncake wrote: post #577
cwhiz wrote: post #576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you’re describing is much closer to tyranny.

The hell? Any decisions that involve more than one person involve tyranny?

Any situation where one group is forced to go along with what another group wants is tyranny, regardless of the sizes of the groups. When the first group is large and the second group is small you have an oligopoly or dictatorship. When the reverse is true you have tyranny of the majority, which isn't much of an improvement.

The democratic ideal is people coming together voluntarily to work toward their common interests, with no one being forced to participate against their will. The right to secede is key—it's not a legitimate democracy if you aren't allowed to leave.

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#618

Post by natch »

Balgair wrote: post #398
natch wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're talking about whether the most visible champion of Dogecoin, whose formal title at his company is Techking, and who added a fart-on-demand feature to his products, and saying that one of his tweets regarding a currently non-existent party, a Tesla union organization, is unprofessional. Labels like "unprofessional" are repugnant to some people, because they have been, and continue to be, used to justify arbitra…

> You're talking about whether the most visible champion of Dogecoin, whose formal title at his company is Techking, and who added a fart-on-demand feature to his products, and saying that one of his tweets regarding a currently non-existent party, a Tesla union organization, is unprofessional. You bring up a good point here and I think it applies to all of his ventures: Why trust anything the guy does? However, when…

It's wise not to trust fast moving heavy objects, yes.

There's something to be said for a hybrid of human and machine attention though. From real world personal experience, there are some safety advantages.

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#619

Post by eru »

evgen wrote: post #609
eru wrote: post #598

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, German unions have their problems as well. > It could also be the case that US unions operate in a country where power is held by a class of people who would really prefer their serfs to STFU and get back to whatever dangerous, ill-paid task they were assigned. What makes you think European business owners are less greedy or evil? Capital is internationally mobile, and it's the same index funds owning a good chun…

Business owners in Europe are not any less greedy or evil, they are simply constrained by laws and the political environment to be unable to commit the worst offenses.

Not sure. Workers in the US are better off than in Europe.

And within Europe, the places with the best off workers tend to be the ones with pro-business laws, like Switzerland (and in contrast to Greece or France).

Re: Elon Musk’s anti-union tweet from 2018 must be deleted: U.S. labor board

#620

Post by dang »

mat7447 wrote: post #601
entropea wrote: post #600

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please use good faith arguments.

[flagged]

We've banned this account for repeatedly breaking HN's guidelines. Please don't create accounts to do that with.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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