Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

611–620 of 974 posts

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#611

Post by alkonaut »

jlokier wrote: post #598
alkonaut wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most scarce resource is time. Switching job would presumably require more work from me at least temporarily. I'd perhaps need to commute initially at least, for example. I'd like to know this: if I got 2x the pay in the US, could I instead ask to work 1/2 and get the current pay level I have? Most likely no, right? So in what way is that higher pay actually helping me pursue passions? I'd be working at least as m…

Time isn't the most scarce resource for everyone. If your passions require more money than you have, it doesn't matter that you have 6-8 weeks off. You still can't do the things you want to do. You can relax, travel (limited due to funds though), which are both nice for a while but eventually become frustrating. My passions are expensive - too expensive unfortunately. For example I could really do with a house to bui…

Yes, of course the essential needs (houses, travel, expensive mountainbikes) are satisfied. There are no "if only I had X" needs, and many "If only I had more hours to use my X". I reached that point when there were too few hours and "enough" to fill those hours, long ago.

I realize things can change though. If I were to suddenly be divorced for example, I'd probably value having a much higher paying job suddenly (at the expense of less free time, more stress, less interesting work etc), to be able afford life.

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#612

Post by collyw »

neilparikh wrote: post #505
arcticbull wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of folks here are calling out the lower pay for SWEs in Europe and Canada as a failure - but also praise the low wealth inequality and low income inequality in Europe and Canada. You can't have low inequality by definition if you decide to start paying one group a ton of money. Well, this is a lot like the housing conversation in the US. "I want my house to go up in value, and be a great investment!" Also: "Why…

> You can't have low inequality by definition if you decide to start paying one group a ton of money. Sure, but you can still ensure that the lower classes have a good standard of living. Most wealth isn't zero sum. People talk about income/wealth inequality in the US, but to me, based on the complaints people have, it just seems like a proxy for poor standard of living. > Well, this is a lot like the housing convers…

> Most wealth isn't zero sum.

Most solutions to inequality seems to be zero sum. "Tax the rich".

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#613

Post by maigret »

f6v wrote: post #564
dgellow wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What locations are you considering? Because €100k/year in Germany is a really high income.

100k puts you in 1% of the earners, you can get that money as a CTO. Definitely not as a software engineer.

You actually can get that salary in big companies as senior developer, often with team responsibilities. Example: https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Google-Germany-Salaries-EI_...

And it's not only Google.

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#614

Post by overscore »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #577
cjblomqvist wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure about that? Sure, not the top elite, but there's still a significant gap between upper middle class and lower in for example Sweden, which I believe is one of the more equal countries. FAANG level salaries would significantly widen that gap.

Not really true. Being a dev in sweden does not put you in the mid-upper class (lawyers, doctors, footballers, celebrieties, bankers, management consulting) FAANG salaries would help close that gap.

In Ireland, software developers with similar levels of experience earn significantly more than doctors, lawyers, management consultants and most bankers. There's only a tiny number of footballers, celebrities, bankers, and non-software consultants who earn more than the software developers as a class.

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#615

Post by petters »

alkonaut wrote: post #55

I got my higher education for free. I expect to save nothing for my children or their education. I expect to have to put aside very little for retirement. The thing is, I just can’t find an argument why I should be able to get very rich doing my job. It’s a comfortable job. It pays a good salary. I got here by taking no risk at all. I wouldn’t want to switch jobs just to drive up my pay even if I could. I have other…

> The thing is, I just can’t find an argument why I should be able to get very rich doing my job.

Sure, but if you are a really good engineer in software, someone is going to get "very rich" from your work. Why not (partly) you?

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#616

Post by stiray »

alkonaut wrote: post #55

I got my higher education for free. I expect to save nothing for my children or their education. I expect to have to put aside very little for retirement. The thing is, I just can’t find an argument why I should be able to get very rich doing my job. It’s a comfortable job. It pays a good salary. I got here by taking no risk at all. I wouldn’t want to switch jobs just to drive up my pay even if I could. I have other…

> I got my higher education for free. I expect to save nothing for my children or their education. I expect to have to put aside very little for retirement.

Exactly this. European social democracy allows people to have relatively calm life without burden to start their careers with huge school debt. Or worrying about health insurances. Once you will have family (OP), you will see that not saving for their health insurances and school also helps a lot and I wouldn't change this for USA system. On the other side, it is very simple for software engineer to get a job anywhere in the world, but do take into account pros and cons.

Anyway, to the topic, the way of raising salaries in any sector has always been the same. Form a syndicate, get enough people to join and go on strike (and if you live in EU you are very well covered and protected regarding syndicate activities).

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#617

Post by nivenkos »

daleharvey wrote: post #588

Why? I earn ~8x the salary my Mum ever earned, I earn more than anyone I know that I went to school with. I can support myself and my family. I started paying attention to my spending last year and realise around half of it was on stuff that I not only didnt need, but felt better without (tbh it was mostly takeaway food). Buying a house was hard despite my "high" salary, thats ridiculous, but I don't think the soluti…

Do you own a house though?

My worry is what happens when we hit ages 50-80 and the ageism in Tech hits us hard.

Without a house, retirement is a pipe dream. And houses are incredibly expensive.

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#618

Post by throwawayzRUU6f »

snicker7 wrote: post #301
KronisLV wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That does sound like a pretty stress-free way to live! That said, living in Europe doesn't always equal good living conditions and stability - it depends on the particular country you're in as well. My net salary is just over 1000€ per month as a software dev. My living expenses eat up around half of that. If a quick search turns up that in USA the median salary for a dev is around 100k$ per year ( https://money.usne…

> over 1000€ per month I would like to know what country/city you are based out of. In the US, that wage is well below the poverty line.

That's not all that uncommon in eastern Europe. I used to earn 5€/hour at my first programming gig in Slovakia. LV in the parent's post likely refers to Latvia.

In fact, even in the first world countries like Italy or Spain it's not uncommon to earn less than 1700€ net.

Here in Finland, 80% of the US GDP/capita btw, some entry level positions are at 2000€ net.

Re: Ask HN: How to increase SWE salaries in Europe?

#620

Post by burntoutfire »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #390
KronisLV wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That does sound like a pretty stress-free way to live! That said, living in Europe doesn't always equal good living conditions and stability - it depends on the particular country you're in as well. My net salary is just over 1000€ per month as a software dev. My living expenses eat up around half of that. If a quick search turns up that in USA the median salary for a dev is around 100k$ per year ( https://money.usne…

I considered moving to France for a few years (from the US), but I was shocked to find it would be a 40% pay cut, even after factoring in all of the healthcare and other expenses we Americans enjoy. And the cost of living is a fair bit higher in France to boot. Now that companies are cozying up to remote work, I think I’ll jist do more frequent 3 month trips and work in the evenings when I run out of vacation days. T…

> avoid dealing with VISAs

VISA is a name of a company. What you mean is just "visa".

Post reply on HN