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Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

theguardian.com

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Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#601

Post by bko »

simgt wrote: post #412
bko wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What mental gymnastics? Women that are abused often marry an abuser because it's just the way things are in relationships. For boys, fighting or threat of violence is just a fact of life. They are taught at a young age not to use that violence against someone that's not roughly physically matched, which includes women. That's why we tell boys never hit girls. Why do you pretend you don't understand?

No, in advanced societies we tell children to never hit others .

... and then everyone stood up and applauded.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#602

Post by baobabKoodaa »

dash2 wrote: post #597
baobabKoodaa wrote: post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really get what point you're trying to make, but I'll answer your questions: 1. Yes, smacking your child on any part of their body, including the wrist, is violence. You're trying to make some kind of "a lot of violence might be wrong but just a little bit of violence can be useful" point? I don't get it. 2. No, I don't agree that "imprisoning children is wrong". Sometimes children commit horrible crimes, lik…

If you define absolutely anything as violence in that way, you’re completely within your rights to do that, but then you can’t claim it’s intuitively obvious that we should never use violence against children. Instead you will need actual evidence, which leads us back to where we started - the evidence base is weak. Or you can say what I think many people throughout history would have seen as common sense (rightly or…

> If you define absolutely anything as violence

I didn't define "absolutely anything" as violence. I didn't even reach for some contested definition of the word. Just the normal everyday definition that is broadly accepted in western society today.

> Or you can say what I think many people throughout history would have seen as common sense (rightly or wrongly): violence against children is wrong, but spanking them doesn’t count as “violence”.

Just like Putin's war in Ukraine is a "special military operation" or Trump's war in Iran is "just a little skirmish", right? You can play word games all you want, but it won't change the substance of the arguments. The point I made earlier was that some things are inherently good or bad, and that "violence against children" is part of those things. If you want me to say "xzglorb" instead of "violence", sure, we can say "xzglorb", but the substance doesn't change: xzglorb against children is inherently bad.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#603

Post by postalrat »

vidarh wrote: post #591
postalrat wrote: post #585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you consider putting someone in jail as violence. It's not much different than kidnapping and that's usually considered violence. How about a time-out for a child?

> Do you consider putting someone in jail as violence. Yes, I do. It should also be a last resort to mitigate worse consequences to society, and is severely over-used for many things where it has no proven benefit. > How about a time-out for a child? It can be cruel if over-used, but it is not the same as physically hurting a child.

A time-out can still be considered violence and something you approve for children.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#604

Post by xyzelement »

teiferer wrote: post #461
AussieWog93 wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, I have girls and there's definitely a biological difference there even at a young age. They're much more sensitive to more subtle negative feedback in a way that boys just aren't.

And that's why boys should be beaten when they misbehave?

I think that's the wrong question.

Kids need "an approach" that helps them learn necessary boundaries. That approach differs by gender (I have both boys and girls and that's obvious)

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#605

Post by xyzelement »

almostjazz wrote: post #365
graemep wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All those differences do impact roles in society. They let women breastfeed. They give men greater physical strength. Other biological differences make women become pregnant. These will affect roles in society. I am a proponent of paternity leave. The counter argument is always based on biological differences. So are the arguments for not having women in many roles in the armed forces. > gender is a human invention.…

Where exactly is the physical strength of males necessary in modern society? The only circumstance in which there are men strong enough to so something that women can't do is at the most elite level of athletics. Any role relevant to society that would require that level of strength, we have machines for, because the majority of men and women are not elite powerlifters, and because they probably need way more strengt…

// Where exactly is the physical strength of males necessary in modern society?

Almost every flight I take, a woman asks (or appreciates the offer) for me to help put her bag in the overhead compartment.

My wife appreciates that I can can carry a double stroller with the kids on it up a few steps.

The fact that you can't think of such examples might reveal more about you than about the necessity of strength in modern society.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#606

Post by throw_await »

bsenftner wrote: post #311
danpalmer wrote: post #129

The only effective punishment/threat that I saw work on my bullies at school was the threat to remove one of them from the football team and prevent him from playing for the school. He turned it around and was ok after that. It was highly effective because it was a bigger punishment than those used for not doing your homework, and because it was highly relevant to him specifically. It worked because we had 16 student…

Bullies need to be identified as simply immature, treated as children that have not graduated to their age. That really impacts the individual. Make them wear identifying clothing as a "special case" and they will mature very fast.

Like this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_concentration_camp_badge

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#607

Post by madaxe_again »

hirvi74 wrote: post #550
roysting wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever thought about or identified what could have changed your ways, whatever those were that I presume were inconsiderate of others or even violations of people? Or was it more that you were pushing back against the industrialized human cog factory we call education in the west?

I was a class clown type, but not a bully. > Have you ever thought about or identified what could have changed your ways An ADHD diagnosis and treatment.

Yeah, I got mine 30 years too late, too.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#608

Post by noufalibrahim »

t-3 wrote: post #584
noufalibrahim wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not wholly. If you have a strong positive relationship with your children, an unambiguous show of displeasure can be a very strong corrective force. A gentle slap on on wrist is a one to show this and it's not damaging especially if followed by something affirmative once he or she has corrected the mistake. I've heard of people from previous generations who've tied their kids and belted them. I find it hard to think…

To be clear, I don't think beating children and desensitizing them to violence is good , I was just arguing that there's a reason why it has been practiced throughout history. The modern era of relative peace and social order in vast tracts of the world has changed laws and norms profoundly for the better, not least in making such barbaric practices obsolete and unacceptable to most people.

My point was that equating beating/spanking to violence on children (which is sometimes is) is over generalizing. I think the scenario I mentioned exhibits the argument. If not, I'd be interested in hearing why you think not.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#609

Post by vidarh »

postalrat wrote: post #603
vidarh wrote: post #591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you consider putting someone in jail as violence. Yes, I do. It should also be a last resort to mitigate worse consequences to society, and is severely over-used for many things where it has no proven benefit. > How about a time-out for a child? It can be cruel if over-used, but it is not the same as physically hurting a child.

A time-out can still be considered violence and something you approve for children.

And oranges can be considered apples. If you're going to redefine terms in the attempts at a gotcha all you're achieve is looking silly.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#610

Post by bdangubic »

kstrauser wrote: post #598
bdangubic wrote: post #559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the best way to deal with a bully is to punch her/his lights out. the schools should have a martial arts / mma trainer on staff. whover gets bullied has to take classes with martial arts / mma fighter until they can hit the bully hard enough for her/him to eat through a straw for a month. this is the way.

This worked for us. A little thug was bullying my kid until I taught my kid how to land a punch to the mouth. That was a one-shot solution to that problem. Obviously that isn’t a universal solution. It’s worth evaluating the option, though.

My daughter did the same thing. She actually “lost the fight” but no one messed with her ever since
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