Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

551–560 of 713 posts

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#551

Post by kelipso »

maxloh wrote: post #443
gramie wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> such cases were easily resolved Hah! In any case, it is a curious argument that, in order to show that stronger people should not hurt weaker people, you think it's okay for stronger people to hurt weaker people.

Yeah. Instead of teaching school bullies to respect others, we are reinforcing the value of power dynamics, where the one in power defines the rules, and the weak must accept and suffer.

That’s called training a person to live in the real world and not be a criminal.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#552

Post by m463 »

doubled112 wrote: post #331
sholladay wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of the generic policies can be very strange, too. I once got detention for getting punched in the arm. I was much taller than any of the school bullies, so they mostly didn't start anything with me. But every now and then, they would try. The punch barely hurt and I didn't really care, but another student saw it and reported it. The staff knew what happened, understood that I was the only one that got hit, and t…

That’s “zero tolerance” hard at work. Wouldn't want a kid who is being bullied to think about retaliating. Also, because the bully can time the bullying, the initial event is often missed, but the victim is caught retaliating. It sounds fair on paper, but punishing everybody involved does not work.

The next step is parents' lawyers going zero tolerance on the school system.

victims shouldn't be accountable for contributing to the problem.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#553

Post by kelipso »

zamadatix wrote: post #464
antics9 wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, having both girls and boys, I can concur.

While I hold the same conclusion as you, individuals chiming in to concur based on their own experience is nothing more than a way to validate what certain people of the time & place commonly believe to be true. E.g. if people were apt to believe girls preferred green peppers more often than boys, there will always be plenty who say "Well, having both girls and boys, I can concur". It could be true, it could be false…

There a line after which too much science fanboyism can get a person to tie themself in knots.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#554

Post by bji9jhff »

nephihaha wrote: post #463
threethirtytwo wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not always straight up immaturity. A lot of it could be other issues related to the bullies environment/household or many other issues. Classical stereotypical case is that the bully himself has an abusive/alcoholic father. There's a lot of complexity in what's involved here, but society is only equipped to deal with the "immaturity" case which is real but not the only story.

They may also have dyslexia, ADHD or social anxiety, which cause them difficulties in other areas and this is how it manifests.

I'm tired of trying to find excuses for their bad behaviours. The first goal should be to protect the victims. By whatever is necessary. People have a right to live in security. Then, once that first step is done, we can think about pampering the bullies into conformance. Not the other way around.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#555

Post by bji9jhff »

quiet35 wrote: post #78

I see at least 2 issues with the physical punishment: - it will only make the bullies taking their revenge on vulnerable ones with even more cruelty. And they will plan it carefully to be hard/impossible to prove. It will lead to the escalation, not to the resolution - the power will be abused, it's inevitable. I would be so scared to be in a class where "teacher" has the power to harm me physically! (to clarify: I a…

On the other hand, I got bullied a lot less after one lose a few teeth. Violence does work.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#556

Post by dmitrygr »

sholladay wrote: post #324
danpalmer wrote: post #129

The only effective punishment/threat that I saw work on my bullies at school was the threat to remove one of them from the football team and prevent him from playing for the school. He turned it around and was ok after that. It was highly effective because it was a bigger punishment than those used for not doing your homework, and because it was highly relevant to him specifically. It worked because we had 16 student…

Some of the generic policies can be very strange, too. I once got detention for getting punched in the arm. I was much taller than any of the school bullies, so they mostly didn't start anything with me. But every now and then, they would try. The punch barely hurt and I didn't really care, but another student saw it and reported it. The staff knew what happened, understood that I was the only one that got hit, and t…

And where were your parents in this? My school in USA tried this... Once. My dad went to have a talk with them. I do not know what was said, but the principal walked out of the room white-faced and they never tried that bullshit on me again.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#557

Post by natpalmer1776 »

bonesss wrote: post #485
rdtsc wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Zero tolerance can lead to a new type of bullying: state sponsored. Absolutely. The more of a victim you're perceived the more attention and the more punishment the bully gets. If the system overreacts, bullies would be stupid not to use the over-reaction in their favor. One of the kids at my daughter's school figured it out and was getting others in trouble by falling down then telling the teacher so and so pushed…

So, what you’re saying is, HR department behaviours start long before HR department employment.

The institutions we force on our children often closely mirror the institutions we implement for ourselves. Conversely, the institutions we go through as children mold our perceptions of how they should appear in adulthood.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#558

Post by zamadatix »

kelipso wrote: post #553
zamadatix wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I hold the same conclusion as you, individuals chiming in to concur based on their own experience is nothing more than a way to validate what certain people of the time & place commonly believe to be true. E.g. if people were apt to believe girls preferred green peppers more often than boys, there will always be plenty who say "Well, having both girls and boys, I can concur". It could be true, it could be false…

There a line after which too much science fanboyism can get a person to tie themself in knots.

Science fanboyism is just in understanding what you do and don't know, not eschewing the possession of beliefs or actions made from them.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#559

Post by bdangubic »

danpalmer wrote: post #129

The only effective punishment/threat that I saw work on my bullies at school was the threat to remove one of them from the football team and prevent him from playing for the school. He turned it around and was ok after that. It was highly effective because it was a bigger punishment than those used for not doing your homework, and because it was highly relevant to him specifically. It worked because we had 16 student…

the best way to deal with a bully is to punch her/his lights out. the schools should have a martial arts / mma trainer on staff. whover gets bullied has to take classes with martial arts / mma fighter until they can hit the bully hard enough for her/him to eat through a straw for a month. this is the way.

Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school

#560

Post by grogenaut »

danpalmer wrote: post #129

The only effective punishment/threat that I saw work on my bullies at school was the threat to remove one of them from the football team and prevent him from playing for the school. He turned it around and was ok after that. It was highly effective because it was a bigger punishment than those used for not doing your homework, and because it was highly relevant to him specifically. It worked because we had 16 student…

I have a peruvian (not athletic/nerdy) friend who moved to the us a while ago. (I played through college) his son randomly started playing football his sophmore year after getting beaned by a baseball and felt baseball was more dangerous.

About junior year the kid was having some issues at home. Dad didn't know what to do. I said email the coach. He's like what will that do. I was like coach can make him run (corporal punishment) and take away things. Emailed the coach. Coach was like "I'll have a chat with him".

Next day he said son came home and apologized to him. Cleaned up amazingly instantly (great kid). Pretty sure it was literally just a talk from another respected figure (who likely said maybe you should play less or miss practice while you sort this out.

Post reply on HN