Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Updates to H-1B

uscis.gov

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

601–610 of 1001 posts

Re: Updates to H-1B

#601

Post by biztos »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #574
biztos wrote: post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to pile on, but if linear algebra is really a part of the day-to-day job and not some manager’s mistaken idea of a proxy for more general talent, then you’re hiring specialists and the pool will not be that large. People who remember all their math and enjoy it and can also code, are also very employable at all the AI companies and departments, including at Meta. And how do you know if someone’s eligible for secu…

Isn’t linear algebra heavily used in machine learning and computer graphics (not just know it, but be able to wield it proficiently)? So ya, the talent probably exists, but they hit the “these engineers are making half a million a year to do something else” problem.

Yes, exactly, I would (naïvely) assume it's common among e.g. ML specialists, who are in high demand and thus hard to recruit. I'm sure there are a lot, but if I had to extrapolate from experience ("OK, who's good at math, hands up?") I would say it's less than 20% of coder genpop.

Re: Updates to H-1B

#602

Post by jmb99 »

AlotOfReading wrote: post #429
jmb99 wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can be inferred that they’re making satellites, or at least satellite components. It’s pretty likely that vector math will be involved in some of the software being written in that context. In particular, if anything they write involves navigation (which is a lot of things when it comes to satellites, from actually maneuvering to observation correction) you need to have a pretty good understanding of linear algebr…

Sure, but there's a huge spectrum between "mild competence" and "can recite strang's verbatim". My experience is that companies emphasizing specific math skills beyond normal professional baselines typically expect the latter despite usually offering the same (or lower) salaries than the former.

I would argue that, if the sole differentiating requirement is “must be proficient at linear algebra” (at an undergraduate level), the pay requirements shouldn’t be that different from most other similar jobs. Almost every engineering job will have some domain specific requirements; would you say a job asking for applicants to be “proficient in undergraduate-level fluid dynamics” would require higher pay than any other chemical engineering job? Or, back to SWE, if there’s a requirement to have experience working with microcontrollers, should that job pay more than any other C developer position?

If an SWE job posting has a narrow set of requirements, none of which require particularly high-level education, that means the ideal candidate is a “regular” SWE with experience or knowledge in the field being hired for. It’s not like this aerospace company wants someone who is an expert at linear algebra while also being a full stack dev with intimate understanding of a few major cloud platforms’ offerings and knows how to write windows drivers and does silicon design in their spare time. They’re just looking for a particular type of developer for which there simply may not be any candidates. Yeah, technically you could triple the salary and steal employees from other companies who weren’t looking for jobs, but the economics of that aren’t feasible. If there are n positions and n-a total eligible developers (for some positive a), it doesn’t matter how much you increase pay, there still aren’t going to be enough people to fill the roles. And you’re eventually going to run out of money, because you usually can’t just triple the price of your products.

Re: Updates to H-1B

#603

Post by 01100011 »

ivalm wrote: post #363
HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #161

A supposed shortage of qualified US applicants for tech jobs, especially software developers, doesn't jibe with the huge numbers of US developers currently looking for work, including highly experienced older workers suffering from age discrimination. I'd be surprised if more than 5-10% of H-1B positions are ones where the hiring company has even looked for US applicants.

We don’t support h1b, of the last 3000 applicants we had only 1 was qualified. It’s super hard to hire strong swe.

Yep. We pay a lot. We are a company you've heard of and we're doing well. For our systems engineering roles, we've had a hell of a time finding good people. Plenty of interviews with folks who turn out not to know basic C programming or systems level algorithms.

It seems like systems level programmers are either firmly employed somewhere else or have switch roles to an easier domain. I know I've considered going back to Python programming where I can make the same money with a lot less work.

Re: Updates to H-1B

#604

Post by tssva »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #156
tssva wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the purpose is cheaper STEM workers than downward pressure on wages is a goal and not just an effect.

The goal isnt to hurt workers for its own sake. The goal is to help industry. If harm was the goal, something like a STEM worker tax or cutting R&D tax incentives would be easier.

The goal is to help industry in a specific manner. Lowering salary costs therefore suppressing wages is an integral part of the goal.

Re: Updates to H-1B

#605

Post by yazzku »

fn-mote wrote: post #600
biztos wrote: post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to pile on, but if linear algebra is really a part of the day-to-day job and not some manager’s mistaken idea of a proxy for more general talent, then you’re hiring specialists and the pool will not be that large. People who remember all their math and enjoy it and can also code, are also very employable at all the AI companies and departments, including at Meta. And how do you know if someone’s eligible for secu…

> if linear algebra is really a part of the day-to-day job [...] then you’re hiring specialists It kind of bothers me that the parent and other readers here are passing off knowing linear algebra as some kind of esoteric skill. Linear algebra is a year 2 course in a undergraduate eduation. There are polished libraries to make it fast. Unless you mean enough knowledge to be writing linear algebra libraries , there is…

Why is this down-voted? I was going to add most people have already seen some sort of linear algebra even in high school. Determinants, Gaussian elimination, etc.

It's unclear what "linear algebra" means to GP, though. I agree writing linear algebra libraries is next level, since that involves numerical code and knowing FP math well.

Re: Updates to H-1B

#606

Post by jmyeet »

HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #161

A supposed shortage of qualified US applicants for tech jobs, especially software developers, doesn't jibe with the huge numbers of US developers currently looking for work, including highly experienced older workers suffering from age discrimination. I'd be surprised if more than 5-10% of H-1B positions are ones where the hiring company has even looked for US applicants.

Here's a reform I'd like to see: if you've had layoffs in the last 24 months, you as an employer are ineligible to apply for or sponsor or hire an H-1B visa holder for any similar position and "similar" here is broad.

Big Tech, for example, treats SWEs as largely interchangeable. Make a SWE redundant and you can't hire another SWE--anywhere in the country--who is a visa holder for 24 months.

You can buy your way out of this by paying any redundant SWE 3 years of salary and benefits.

Let's see how necessary layoffs really are.

Re: Updates to H-1B

#607

Post by rayiner »

HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #161

A supposed shortage of qualified US applicants for tech jobs, especially software developers, doesn't jibe with the huge numbers of US developers currently looking for work, including highly experienced older workers suffering from age discrimination. I'd be surprised if more than 5-10% of H-1B positions are ones where the hiring company has even looked for US applicants.

It’s a scam. It’s the same thing as “we’d pay $8 for avocados if it wasn’t for illegal immigrants” with flowery language.

Re: Updates to H-1B

#608

Post by yazzku »

tgma wrote: post #519
brookst wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, because obviously we as a country should prioritize creepy VR avatars over understanding climate change. By this reasoning no charities should exist (they pay less than commercial orgs) and even people who are willing to work for less in order to feel good about their contribution should not be allowed to. It’s a very cynical, even nihilistic view.

> Yes, because obviously we as a country should prioritize creepy VR avatars over understanding climate change. As a country we have decided to let the market decide what to prioritize. Who are we to judge "creepy VR avatars" are less important if people are willing to fair and square pay for them? If they are creepy, don't pay for them. > No charities should exist. No that is not the appropriate conclusion. People a…

You are very confused about how the US works. Go find out where the Internet comes from, for example.

Re: Updates to H-1B

#609

Post by biztos »

fn-mote wrote: post #600
biztos wrote: post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to pile on, but if linear algebra is really a part of the day-to-day job and not some manager’s mistaken idea of a proxy for more general talent, then you’re hiring specialists and the pool will not be that large. People who remember all their math and enjoy it and can also code, are also very employable at all the AI companies and departments, including at Meta. And how do you know if someone’s eligible for secu…

> if linear algebra is really a part of the day-to-day job [...] then you’re hiring specialists It kind of bothers me that the parent and other readers here are passing off knowing linear algebra as some kind of esoteric skill. Linear algebra is a year 2 course in a undergraduate eduation. There are polished libraries to make it fast. Unless you mean enough knowledge to be writing linear algebra libraries , there is…

I don't think it's esoteric, I just don't think it's used much in real-life, day-to-day software engineering as practiced by most professionals. I didn't mean to imply it's a high hurdle, just that IMO a minority of actual SWE's are going to bust out the proverbial slide rule, and anecdotally it seems like they have a lot of options.

That it's a year-2 undergraduate course for some people argues more for forgetting than remembering it, if you're not using it regularly.

Re: Updates to H-1B

#610

Post by yazzku »

snake42 wrote: post #553
xerxesaa wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a U.S. citizen and I've applied to plenty of these types of jobs. Had an offer at Palantir previously but would not take that now due to ethical concerns. I'm an older worker in management. Willing to be hands on. Not looking to get paid as much as Meta (I've worked there too) but also don't want something that pays peanuts. Willing to relocate to many places. Genuinely curious where I can find such jobs.

For clearance specific kinds of jobs, I use https://www.clearancejobs.com/

It would be good to have a "no military" filter.

Results would probably come out empty anyway.

Post reply on HN