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280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

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601–610 of 756 posts

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#601
post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can compare old houses at the edge of a city which cost four times as much to new builds at the far edges of that city's metro area which cost significantly less. The more expensive houses require significantly less infrastructure and cost the government less to support because of their location. A huge undercurrent in urban planning discourse right now (e.g., Strong Towns), is that if all subsidies and taxes were…

I'm certain this logic only applies to mega cities. The vast majority of smaller cities and towns are like one or two streets of high density and the rest is suburban or rural. There's not actually anyone in the 'city' to subsidize those around it.

There are a lot of cities in the Rust Belt and Midwest like I described, with the regional population around 1-2 million which are far away from being mega cities.

In the few examples I've personally visited, the residential density in the older "upscale" neighborhoods tends to come from duplexes and single family houses on small lots (or larger lots with a comparatively small amount of street frontage). There's some large buildings mixed in along with some very upscale condos and row houses.

Outside of extreme cases, infrastructure costs tend to become dominated by how long the road or pipes are, rather than the number of people using them.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#602
post #83

I've said it before and I'll say it again: building the future around cars of any kind is completely unsustainable. We cannot reproduce the rates of rich world car ownership in the developing world without mass catastrophe (raw materials/labor needed for construction and maintenance, raw materials/labor/space needed for roads and parking lots, literal tons of waste--batteries, tires, steel, plastic, foam--, energy ne…

> I've said it before and I'll say it again

To the same effect. Perhaps a real study on this issue would be more elucidating?

> Banning gas/diesel cars gets there

You've effectively ended farming and rural life.

> is to heavily subsidize EVs

The only reason you have to subsidize them is because they are not adequate replacements for ICE cars. Perhaps if they just made EVs better, people would _want_ them, and they wouldn't be _forced_ into buying them.

> The only problem that self-driving cars will ever solve is where to put VC money in a zero interest rate world.

People value their own time. Perhaps you don't, but it should rightfully be part of this equation.

> I get that whole economies are built around producing/maintaining cars and related infra

Yea.. because they are a good utility and serve a real purpose. We didn't decide to build cars, the market demanded them.

It's always amazing to me that people will "say it over and over again" to no effect, yet walk past the fact that basic MPG fuel economy hasn't improved in 30 years.

> like, on a species level.

Or, take any account of exactly how bunker fuel oil shipping consumes.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#603

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Public transit does not work in a place like Montana or Wyoming. Sorry. Too large, too sparsely populated. Same reason it won't work for most of Texas either. It's fine in Dallas or Austin, parts of Fort Worth... it doesn't scale to Lubbock or New Braunfels. A lot of people have no interest in living in your concrete jungle... myself included.

> Public transit does not work in a place like Montana or Wyoming. Sorry. Too large, too sparsely populated. And individual car ownership only works in those places because of the massive federal welfare they receive in the form of multi-billion-dollar federal highway grants. The federal government spends over $1800 per person per year on roadways in Montana.

To be fair $1200 of that was to plan the potlucks and the Christmas party.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#604

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Riding a bike is not fun if you're doing it to commute - having to do it in all weathers, in traffic that feels unsafe, even if you don't feel like it and got poor sleep etc. It's really fundamentally not the same.

I spent almost an entire year e-biking to work 7 miles and back 7 miles. I can tell you, all the issues you mentioned are correct. I think, if we had dedicated bike lanes that were away from the main roads, at least we can address the safety issue. that would go a long way towards getting me back to commuting on an e-bike. One more big issue for bikes is the cost of it. I've commuted almost 1100 miles on my ebike and…

Are you replacing the whole tire after every flat? In my experience, that's almost never necessary.

One of my two bicycles is a secondhand Schwinn Loop, a cheap folding bike with 20" tires and an extremely rearward weight distribution. After riding ~1,600 miles on it, I just recently replaced the rear tire because it wore thin. I had gotten 5 or 6 flats on that tire. I was able to keep using it, and tube, by removing the nail/staple/glass and patching the tube. I still have the same tube under the new tire. The patches seem to be permanent fixes.

(My other bike is a 700c hybrid bike from Bikes Direct, which I've put around 3,500 or 4,000 miles on. I've only gotten two flats, patched them both, and still haven't worn out the original tires.)

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#605

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not everyone lives in large cities with whole mass transit systems or works the usual 9-5. Have you been to the suburbs of Japan? Or France? Towns created before cars were invented. Lots of single family homes, and a smattering of small vehicles used for work. It can work, but we've built huge car-required cities and towns and lifestyles and it's a sunk cost fallacy. And it feels "normal" to us, but it's not. It's…

Right, I'm not sure exactly what it is, but car ownership in the US seems to have been subsidized. You should be allowed to have a car if you want and not be taxed unfairly for it, but it shouldn't be that almost every job basically requires one. And to get there, I don't think we have to ban things or restrict people's lives, just build new cities less around cars and let people choose that life if they want.

> just build new cities less around cars and let people choose that life if they want.

New cities aren't a good solution, they almost never work out. That's effectively ceding everything that's already been built to the automobile and telling people "if you don't like it, uproot your life and go somewhere else."

I would rather see the places that were originally built without cars in mind return to prioritizing walking, cycling, and transit. Let the exurbs be the exurbs, sure, but let's have our old cities and inner ring suburbs not cater to cars so much. They weren't built for cars in the first place.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#606
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My biggest frustration with bikes here in the US is the lack of security in high traffic areas. The fact that law enforcement doesn't seem to care about stolen bikes is a huge hurdle in my desire to bike to the store, leave alone paying thousands for a decent e-bike that I'd be even more worried about. I say this as an avid cyclist.

Also the complete lack of infrastructure to park and lock your bike. Sounds great - take your bike to the grocery store. Wonderful! Where are you going to park it? Where are you going to lock it? The problem is even worse with e-bikes since they're so much more valuable. A regular, recreational bicycle is less likely to be stolen but an e-bike? It's going to be gone!

And the complete lack of infrastructure to actually cycle? I moved to a city with lots of great biking infrastructure, I would shudder to even think of biking in the average Carville, USA.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#607
post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a positive vision of where society can go rather than having to sacrifice and buckle down. Do people not remember riding bikes as kids? Riding a bike is _still_ fun. It never stopped being fun. Now you can do that and get to work.

Riding a bike is not fun if you're doing it to commute - having to do it in all weathers, in traffic that feels unsafe, even if you don't feel like it and got poor sleep etc. It's really fundamentally not the same.

On an average day my bike commute is the best part of my day

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#609

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't carry four other people on my ebike, along with stuffing a minimum of one duffle bag per person, and usually being able to squeeze two in, along with a cooler for drinks, snacks, and sandwiches. My Telluride can do that though. Even if I could somehow fit all that shit onto an ebike, I wonder how long it and I would be able to make it before we give trying to go the 125 miles from Fort Worth to Possum Kingdom…

> This site infuriates me sometimes at the complete and utter lack of understanding of most of the United States Most of the US in what capacity? Square miles? Because the majority of the population lives in Cities. I love reading comments like yours. All throughout this thread you've vehemently argued that your perspective is the right one. It's a reminder to me that close minded people like you actually exist! You'…

Saying the majority lives in cities is pretty BS though. They aren’t all living in walkable downtowns like Manhattan but rather are living in places like Houston, Phoenix, or Denver that have a few sq miles of what many would consider walkability, very spotty public transportation, and weather for part of the year that keeps all but the insane from wanting to walk to their destination.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#610

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And to say that "the bus should always come" is not exactly an argument in favour of transit. We all know the damn bus should come. But sometimes, it just doesn't. A big reason that the bus doesn't come is that it's gotten stuck in traffic. As in, behind cars. Give the buses their own space so they don't get stuck behind cars and they can be a whole lot more reliable. Of course, since we've handed over essentially…

SF has bus-only lanes everywhere. The bus is still very slow, even if you don't have to wait, because of all the extra stops. I'm looking at visiting parts of western Europe where supposedly public transit is good, but actually it's far slower than driving. The only way driving ever ends up being less convenient is if there's constrained parking. It's just very hard to beat a car that can go directly from point A to…

> The only way driving ever ends up being less convenient is if there's constrained parking.

And in cities there should be constrained parking, because parking takes up valuable space that could be used for lots of other things. If you have abundant parking, it's probably not a very walkable city, because the parking itself is dead space that pushes everything else farther apart.

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