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Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone

theguardian.com

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Re: Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone

#601

Post by YPPH »

cubefox wrote: post #439

Does anyone notice the irony of it being partly repairable, while offering just three years of security updates, after which you basically have to throw the thing away? The repairability sounds nice, but it is very irrelevant compared to the limited software updates. Imagine buying a Windows laptop and only receiving three years of security updates. (I know, most other phones aren't better.) It would have been better…

You're absolutely right.

If they wanted to make a truly repairable phone, they'd release the source code for all the binary blobs to enable the folks at LineageOS to continue to release fixes past the manufacturer's notional end of support period (which does not correlate with the possible lifespan of the device).

Re: Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone

#602

Post by lolinder »

kristopolous wrote: post #508
cubefox wrote: post #439

Does anyone notice the irony of it being partly repairable, while offering just three years of security updates, after which you basically have to throw the thing away? The repairability sounds nice, but it is very irrelevant compared to the limited software updates. Imagine buying a Windows laptop and only receiving three years of security updates. (I know, most other phones aren't better.) It would have been better…

In practice I've been cycling phones about every two years. I just checked and all resources I've seen puts the typical lifespan around this. I don't know what the distribution looks like though. I bet the distribution curves change if you bucket the pricing points. 3 years is ok. After you buy it, they've made 100% of the money they're going to make in the transaction. They need money to come in to support such an e…

Yes it's normal, but it's incredibly wasteful.

There's no reason outside of software updates why a 3-year-old phone can't continue to be used—mine is now 5 years old and works fine, and I only upgraded from my now 7-year-old phone because my brother had one that he thought he'd bricked that I resurrected. Neither phone is fast, but they're perfectly serviceable.

What I don't understand is why these updates aren't a solved problem. Desktop hardware manufacturers sell equipment that continue to be supported for 10+ years by Windows, and they manage to stay in business just fine. Why is it that a 3-year support window is considered normal in the mobile world?

Re: Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone

#603

Post by charcircuit »

palata wrote: post #585
charcircuit wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but its still a lot of e-waste Phones are a tiny amount of waste. Trying to get a few extra years out of one is a microoptimization in reducing one's waste output.

> Phones are a tiny amount of waste. Can you elaborate on that? Seems completely wrong to me.

Think of how much people throw away each week. A phone is only a couple hundred grams and takes up a small amount of space. Think of how many phones could fit in a single garbage bag. The number will be way more than the number of phones they will go through in their entire life. So in your entire life you are saving a fraction of a garbage bag's worth of garbage.

Re: Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone

#604

Post by hedora »

YPPH wrote: post #601
cubefox wrote: post #439

Does anyone notice the irony of it being partly repairable, while offering just three years of security updates, after which you basically have to throw the thing away? The repairability sounds nice, but it is very irrelevant compared to the limited software updates. Imagine buying a Windows laptop and only receiving three years of security updates. (I know, most other phones aren't better.) It would have been better…

You're absolutely right. If they wanted to make a truly repairable phone, they'd release the source code for all the binary blobs to enable the folks at LineageOS to continue to release fixes past the manufacturer's notional end of support period (which does not correlate with the possible lifespan of the device).

Ideally, they would release the source code for the drivers, and the manuals for each IP block in the SoC, etc.

For some reason, hardware manufacturers have decided that their manuals are secret.

Of course, if you ban distribution of your product manuals, then only criminals that pirate your IP will be able to properly implement drivers for your product…

Re: Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone

#605

Post by mikejarema »

luckyshot wrote: post #194
mikejarema wrote: post #141

Why doesn't Nokia allow me to preorder or sign up to be notified when the device is released/available in my market? A search for g22 on nokia.com yields zero (!!) results. https://www.nokia.com/search/global/en/G22 I'll be shopping for a new phone soon and am interested in this model. But wow, they've missed a huge opportunity to capture that interest and let me know when I can buy!

I can get notified with this link (in spanish, though): https://www.nokia.com/phones/es_es/nokia-g-22/buy?sku=101S06...

Thank you for sharing, I'll give it a try

Update: "Lo sentimos, algo ha salido mal. Comprueba la dirección de correo electrónico y vuelve a intentarlo."

Re: Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone

#606

Post by ikt »

jimnotgym wrote: post #545
mikepurvis wrote: post #514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm still rocking an iPhone 8, and it's just fine for me— came out in Sept 2017. At this point I consider Apple's commitment to long term support to be a key element of my loyalty to them.

It wasn't that long ago that Apple were being accused of deliberating slowing down older phones. If that has improved then I am glad.

That was a bunch of malarkey, I don't know if it's irony but funnily enough they did it to make their devices last longer...

https://www.ifixit.com/News/9472/ios-update-slows-iphone

Our goal is to deliver the best experience for customers, which includes overall performance and prolonging the life of their devices. Lithium-ion batteries become less capable of supplying peak current demands when in cold conditions, have a low battery charge or as they age over time, which can result in the device unexpectedly shutting down to protect its electronic components.

Last year we released a feature for iPhone 6, iPhone 6s and iPhone SE to smooth out the instantaneous peaks only when needed to prevent the device from unexpectedly shutting down during these conditions. We’ve now extended that feature to iPhone 7 with iOS 11.2, and plan to add support for other products in the future.

Re: Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone

#607

Post by josephg »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #566
devy wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see a 3-year security update as an irony. In fact, I see that as a great gesture for the budget price point android phone has a 3-year software warranty. Nokia probably have done research on this pricing segment to know that the averaging budget android device lifecycle is about 2.x years and guarantee a 3 year security update to make the device more worthy, comparing to other brands at this price point. By t…

> Apple iPhone as the gold standard only provide security updates up to 6-7 years Laughs in Microsoft How about 20 years?! I have a laptop built in 2006, it runs Windows 10 and will be supported untill 2025. It can also run software compiled in 1999! What platform can beat it, an IBM mainframe? Microsoft is the gold standard! Its a shame they never get credit for the one thing they do well.

I started programming in the 90s. The other day I found some of the first programs I ever wrote (in qbasic), and ran them in qbasic 4.5 on dosbox on my Mac laptop.

I was running an arm laptop, emulating a modern x86_64 chip, emulating an old i386 chip, interpreting a qbasic program unmodified from 30 years ago. Sound, graphics modes, input events - all of it worked perfectly. I didn’t try running it on windows, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it just worked there too without even needing dosbox.

Backwards compatibility on phones is a joke. Decades of phone software is totally lost to history, impossible to download or run anywhere.

The web isn’t much better because old websites go down. But at least modern browsers will still happily render webpages from the 90s just fine.

Re: Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone

#608

Post by qball »

paulmd wrote: post #487
qball wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>driving down the value of a stolen iPhone And driving up the cost of repairs. If I want to turn off the thing that bricks the identification features, there's no technical reason why I shouldn't be able to do that- my device follows my orders, not the other way around.

> And driving up the cost of repairs. Yes, but Apple provides low-cost replacement parts. Like the cost of an iphone battery via apple store or apple self-service is objectively reasonable, so yeah, you can't use amazon batteries and who cares? > If I want to turn off the thing that bricks the identification features, there's no technical reason why I shouldn't be able to do that The reason is because it encourages t…

>well if what you're telling them to do is buy a hot stereo out of the back of a truck, that's illegal

You're dodging the question.

If I buy a replacement Home button, I expect the fingerprint sensor within to work. The fact is, that expectation is objectively right; it neither breaks your arm or picks your pocket.

That's the entire reason why we're getting right to repair laws, for that matter; society agrees with me, and not you (and so you're wrong, by your own rules).

Re: Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone

#609

Post by hedora »

heavyset_go wrote: post #496
lolinder wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just a question of flashing it, it's a question of living with it. By all accounts I've read the custom ROM experience is far from seamless: it sounds worse than the Linux desktop currently is, and I wouldn't recommend running Linux to just anyone.

Custom ROMs work just as well as the ROMs phones are shipped with.

This wasn’t my experience with de-googled (edit) grapheneos.

One week, apps started throwing an uncaught null pointer exception on startup because their network permission was revoked.

Even without that, random apps (especially for charging EVs and parking, and especially if it was raining) would just plain break for a few weeks, then start working again.

It would be nice if there was a commonly-used android compatibility suite for developers (of apps and of roms), but there isn’t, so everything is flaky once you are slightly off the beaten path.

Re: Nokia launches DIY repairable budget Android phone

#610

Post by hedora »

wahnfrieden wrote: post #449
peterlk wrote: post #391

And it comes with a 3mm headphone jack! Hallelujah!! I’m so, so glad someone is stepping up to fill this niche. My only complaint, and it’s kind if a big one, is that the screen is too damn big. I’m tired of phone manufacturers forcing me to carry a television in my pocket. I want something small that I can hold in one hand without a pop socket. I’ll trade performance, camera quality, basically anything for a phone w…

you want a watch (wrist or pocket)

Does a standalone cellular watch exist (as a daily driver for everything you’d expect in that form factor)?
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