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Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

economist.com

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Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#601

Post by johnwalkr »

davidMC1982 wrote: post #205
hgomersall wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're missing the point... If you reject car ownership and the associated commute etc, you structure your life around that. You get a job and a house that are compatible with that philosophy. As a couple, neither of you would have a job that requires you to commute such distances.

That only holds true when your basic needs to survive are met such that you're able to entertain a philosophy such as "reject car ownership". I suspect most people are going to abandon such a philosophy as soon as "putting food on the table" is no longer possible. Conflicting ideas such as these crop up all the time. For instance, "commuting in a car is dead time, at least I can read/work on the train". A reasonable…

“Rejecting car ownership” types will probably live walking distance to schools. This doesn’t even have to mean living in a city centre somewhere, if anything schools are the one thing in America designed for local people as opposed being designed for cars.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#602

Post by hooverd »

Xylakant wrote: post #451
CalRobert wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It certainly helps! But in California (my home) at least neighbourhoods that are walkable and nice often have very expensive homes. We liked South Park, San Diego, but there were almost no homes under $1 million for instance.

Changing that is the entire goal of the "anti-car" crowd, right? They want city-planers to build neighborhoods that are walkable, accessible by public transport and don't require owning a car. And they want them everywhere, for everyone.

The anti-car crowd has in the US has that new convert zeal. If you poke them enough, a lot will say that no one anywhere should be allowed to own a car. Not that are cities aren't horribly car centric though, but I don't think we should empty out the countryside to get rid of cars.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#603

Post by splitstud »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #320
sokoloff wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (cars used to be a lot cheaper, both to buy and to maintain. Incomes for most used to be much higher) Cars have inflated at a rate significantly lower than general inflation (typically by about half as much), meaning they've gotten cheaper in real terms. They've also gotten much safer, more fuel efficient, reliable, lower-maintenance, and long-lived. https://www.in2013dollars.com/New-cars/price-inflation/1980-...

In that case I wonder if it's a matter of the essentials costing so much more? Is it possible the cost of housing is taking up the price of a car?

[dead]

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#604

Post by thehappypm »

eastbound wrote: post #551
CalRobert wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True freedom is a folding bike! Ride to point a, take your Brompton with you on the train to point B, ride to point c, etc.

True freedom is city bikes. Go anywhere worry-free, empty handed, come back using a simple card. 35€ per year in Lyon, France. Unplanned arrival at 1am in the wrong train station? A bike is still waiting for you. Drawbacks: It’s only free for 30 minutes per trip; Sometimes you still get the bike stolen for 150€.

Sadly cold climate areas struggle with making this a reality. Boston has a big network of these bikes and ridership is huge in the warmer months, but drops off a cliff when it gets cold and icy. I know areas in Europe achieve this, but Copenhagen is warmer and less snowy than Boston.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#605

Post by stuckinhell »

e63f67dd-065b wrote: post #539
stuckinhell wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an aging millennial as well. I love having a car! I can't imagine not having a car when you have KIDS! Driving them to their various sports games, with a car full of their equipment. Going camping with them. Getting groceries for a family of 5. I can't imagine doing that on public transport.

As a kid who grew up in a dense city, I can’t imagine having to be driven by my parents to see a friend or to play some sports, instead of just walking there myself anytime I wanted. I can’t imagine it’s great for the parent either, you have to plan your schedule around your kids and the flexibility just seems miserable.

You might also be discounting a generational change. My coworkers in the city don't let their kids under 13 walk around in the city by themselves either. We often coordinate when we all are planning on doing stuff with our kids, so slack coverage is always 100%

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#606

Post by lotsofpulp »

fwungy wrote: post #591
zeku wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a very interesting thing happening in the "car knowledge space". At least for young people. Myself and a few of my friends drive exclusively Honda/Toyota and drive them to 200k and then sell them to people who know how to do their own car work. A few of my friends are from well off families and they buy cars brand new and drive them to 60-80k and then act like the car isnt reliable anymore for some reason de…

New buyers often have the ability to write off the purchase which gives them a substantial discount.

Write it off what?

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#607

Post by stronglikedan »

wffurr wrote: post #10

There's 138 trains per day between Amsterdam and The Hague. It's faster to take the train than to drive on that trip. Driving in either city in an exercise in frustration. Why would anyone in a rich country with a high functioning rail system like The Netherlands want to drive? I don't know how many rich countries that describes, but I lived happily for years in Boston in the USA without a car. I have one now but onl…

> Why would anyone in a rich country with a high functioning rail system like The Netherlands want to drive?

Because some people, like me, find driving to be blissful and elating, and I will never not take the opportunity to do it.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#608

Post by ghaff »

sokoloff wrote: post #564
ghaff wrote: post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When Teradyne moved out of Boston, that was pretty much the last major tech company that was in Boston as I recall. The outposts of the west coast companies are much newer as is most of the pharma/biotech. All the big computer companies were out in Metrowest (one of which I worked for) and the defense companies were outside the city as well. In any case, I certainly didn't have any job offers in Boston/Cambridge when…

Akamai was founded there in 1995. Thinking Machines moved to that general area in 1984. Lotus Software was nearby since 1982. Infocom was there in the 1980s. Google opened Cambridge in 2003. Several other MIT-spinoff startups came and went, of course (Lisp Machines/Symbolics).

Akamai was probably the first really significant tech company to populate Kendall. Lotus was up in Fresh Pond. Infocom was on Wheeler Street as I recall. As you, there were a number of AI Lab and other MIT spinoffs in the general MIT area. But, to my original point, the vast majority of computer industry employment was out in the suburbs.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#609

Post by dublinben »

armchairhacker wrote: post #278
BizarreByte wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In fact, a well off person in a well functioning city has little if any reason to own a car and can get away without one. You can get away without one, that is if you don’t mind sharing transit with violent junkies in any North American city. Transit can be down right terrifying to use these days.

It depends. Anecdotally, in Boston the MBTA is one of the "falling apart" systems. I could still rely on it to commute to my college / job, and the worst that has happened was sometimes being late due to delays. There are certainly a lot of sketchy people, but I have never seen someone attacked or have anything stolen or been harassed myself - then again I am a man and I'm certain it's different for women. But more i…

There's no shortage of parking in Boston, the market price of $40/day or $400 a month is just unaffordable for most college students. The ones driving exotic sports cars sure don't have any problem finding parking in the city.

As you point out, when you can find all of life's necessities within a reasonable walking distance, the need to own a car is significantly diminished. That's the goal that "anti-car" activists are pushing for.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#610

Post by fragmede »

antisthenes wrote: post #452
usrusr wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really is a "the grass is bleaker on the other side" situation. As a public transport person I feel weirdly constrained by the idea that a day's itinerary will inevitably have to see me return to wherever the car is parked, impossible to do spontaneous things like walk a few stops, ride with an acquaintance or something like that that would eventually take me home, but not return to some previous stage. With a car…

Must be nice to live in a country where public transport exists and is reasonably functional to get you places without having to wait 25-30 minutes at every leg of your journey.

I live in a city where that's the case for my day-to-day, but I certainly pay for it with increased rent, among other things. Still, life's too short to live somewhere you hate.
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